ZIS barrage is quite ridiculous actually. It serves an anti-tank and anti-infantry role while coming equipped with an ability to counter squads that should counter the ZIS.
If the ability came at vet 1 it would be much better.
I think this impossible to counter in 2v2 without luck.
Look at the documentation here on this thread listing all threads asking for a viable strategy that can be replicated without RNG luck and NO ONE is able to give a good answer in any of the threads:
In 1v1 or 2v2 it's easy to dodge this air strike but 3v3 or 4v4 it has very big chance to hit. Comparing this to IL, IL is useless. Flares on the ground show where it's going to hit so all you need is to move few units. When you hear this noise, you have to move all of your units cause you never know where it will land.
Well, IL still can be useful but you need to stun tanks, immobilize and then strike. Sound like a joke when you see how much this ability costs.
Give soviets sound alert also!
Yes I have played it this patch and it had a fuel cost increase for its buff.
My point was that prepatch the Tiger was not very good, for cost, at any role. It was outranged by SU85 and ZIS, and it couldn't fill the role as a break the line unit because if you got close to the line to try and flank the SU85s or AT guns you would get AT naded and ensure it's destruction.
Now at least it can charge the line and have a decent chance of success and for its cost its worth it.
You can't have it both ways. You want to increase the range of the Tiger and make it a long range AT weapon, then fine. Otherwise keeping it in limbo where it can't fight from afar and can't get in close without certain death makes the unit untenable.
Have you tried using a Tiger this patch? Or had one against you? Compared to the IS2, which fires 30% slower, has 25% less health, and faces weaker AT abilities (though the armor value largely compensates for this part), the Tiger has pretty much equal squad wiping capability while fighting against the larger soviet squads. I don't know how you're managing to get at-naded so easily with your tigers because I can pretty much rely on my Tiger alone to twoshot any conscript squad that tries to get in close, it's only mines that are a danger and for that you have your pretty much mandatory sweeper army this patch anyway because of how the aoe on soviet mines keeps oneshotting infantry squads now.
This is in sharp contrast to the previous patches where the Tiger was clearly the more AT focused of the Tiger/IS2 matchup. This also leaves Panthers very little point in existing in 1vs1, though this is nothing new. The Tiger fills the exact same AT role while providing insane AI on top of that. Ram is also mostly gone now, so the old cheese counter to Tigers no longer exists, making it very difficult to deal with one on more closed quarters maps where ATGuns have a hard time getting firing lines without coming into range of the Tiger as well.
On a theoretical level if I wanted to optimize play as germans this patch in 1vs1, I'd never tech beyond T2, always just wait out for tigers. They're that good, against any situation you'll see in 1vs1.
I don't agree with reducing Tiger's AOE radius. It's fuel cost has been increased and it's finally worth getting in competitive games.
It is out ranged by Soviet AT tanks and is supposed to close in with its health, but is so slow and gets AT naded all the time. It can't be a long range killer or a break the line tank -- it's just in limbo as a damage soaker right now. Nerfing its AI ability doesn't make sense.
These changes are mostly aimed at increasing viability of underused units and abilities and fixing some issues with popular units. Pretty much purely from a 1vs1 perspective because it's the only gamemode I regularly play.
Unit changes:
German sniper: to 64 hp (from 48)
German halftrack: cost down to 220/20 (from 270/30)
German halftrack: flamer upgrade down to 90 munitions (from 120)
Panzerfaust: trigger range to 23 (from 25).
Add 125mp/30f research for pioneer demolition charges for germans.
Elefant: range to 75 (from 100)
Tiger: AOE radius reduced to 3.0 (from 3.5)
MG42: setup time reduced to 2.5 seconds (from 3.0)
Panzergrenadiers: 1.2 armor (from 1)
Trench: health doubled
Pak43/LeFH/ML-20/B4: Increase gun health significantly (350/470 --> 620)
AT Gun camo (both sides): Reduce movement penalty to 50%
Guard grenade: Reduce AOE radius to 4 (from 4.5)
S-mine buildtime increased to 5 seconds (from 2.5)
Soviet TM-35 mine: Damage far to 0.2 (from 1)
KV-1: Increase front armor to 290 (from 240).
M42 45mm AT gun: increase damage to 100 (from 80), increase penetration to 130/95/60 (from 100/80/60)
ISU152: range to 75 (from 100)
KV-2: Decrease manpower cost to 540 (from 630)
Sherman: Reload speed slowed down by 0.75s
Maxim: team crew logic changed to mimic how soviet MG42 teams setup
PPSH damage drop-off for midrange improved, damage at range 12 to ~1.2 (from 0.8)
M3 cost to 200M/15F (from 190/10)
Heavy vehicles now require tech before they can be called in:
Tiger, Elefant require Battle Phase 3 OR T3 building
Command Tank, Puma, Stug E requires Battle Phase 2
KV-1, KV-2, KV-8, IS-2, ISU-152, T34-85, Sherman require either T3 or T4 building.
Commander ability changes:
Sector Artillery: Make ability either predict unit movement, or reduce time to arrive significantly
Stuka Close Air Support: Tracking of target improved massively, first round should always hit on target and further ones then try to track target as much as the plane turn rate allows.
Rapid Conscription/Relief infantry: show how many more losses you need to take to get a new squad on top of the ability icon. Decrease cost by 20 munitions.
Vehicle Detection: to 30 munitions (from 60)
Fear Propaganda: Guaranteed suppress on every tick in AOE. Pin and Retreat chances unchanged.
Stuka 50kg bomb drop: Damage to 600 (from 750). Damage far to 0.3 (from 0.25) to keep aoe.
Reduce Soviet Industry manpower penalty to 40 (from 65). Reduce fuel income to 11 (from 13)
Unit veterancy changes:
Soviet Sniper Vet1 Sprint: Increase cost by 15 munitions
Blitzkrieg Tactics: Increase speed max by 0.3 while engine not damaged.
German sniper: incendiary rounds available at vet0, vet1 infantry awareness
Puma: Target Weak Point replaced with Infantry Awareness (or Blitz)
General gameplay changes:
Removal of heavy engine crit chance from faust/atnade
Reinstate plane direction controls from vcoh for plane-based offmap abilities.
Fix automatic reload when a squad weapon (Shreks, PTRS, etc) gets swapped to another member due to model death.
Attack radius of all plane loiter abilities shown on map for both sides with a red circle.
Map Changes:
Fix hedges. Many hedgerows in the game still have very strange behaviour in terms of unit vision. Hedgerows on Semois summer (such as the ones near the strategic point on the left that connects to the munitions point) let you see through them but don't allow direct fire units like snipers to fire through. Hedgerows on Langres behave irrationally after they are destroyed, units won't autofire even into a unit that is just sitting where the hedges used to be in complete view, or any units behind the destroyed hedges. Yet abilities that require direct line of sight like the B4 anti-tank shot still work over these flattened hedgerows but won't over the intact ones.
Crossing in the Woods: Similar to the hedge problem, this map features numerous points where units can't fire through despite having full vision (bushes at the strategic points next to corner fuels, trees around the water crossings)
Road to Kharkov: Redesign the north cutoff by moving or completely removing the bigger building overlooking it and getting rid of the trees that block view of the cutoff when coming from the north base.
Langres Winter: Remove a large portion of heavy snow, particularly from around the two munition points.
Kholodny Summer/Winter: Move right side south cut-off strategic point a bit to the right.
Commander tree changes:
German infantry doctrine: Replace Relief Infantry with G43 upgrade. Replace Fragmentation Bomb with fuel to munitions transfer.
Defensive doctrine (both factions): Change the commander ability to "doubled health on tank traps and halved build time on all defensive structures", add tank traps to the normal build options of pioneers and combat engineers.
NKVD Rifle Disruption: Replace Rapid Conscription with ppsh. Any good ideas what else to do while staying in an NKVD theme?
Soviet combined army: Replace AT gun camo with KV-1 call-in.
That's b/c you're reading with fan boy colored glasses. Feel free to explain why Panther needed a cost increase, hp decrease, change in blitz AND soviet AT buffed?
If you care to actually read you understand that most people agree changes were necessary but all these changes combined make the Panther useless unless you're playing noob 4v4 games. Which you may very well be.
Seriously, you don't have to be smart, just objective.
I think the Soviet AT buff and changes to blitz were adequate. Even with the Panther buff to penetration, it will still be underperforming.
The issue is survivability. Why buy a unit that expensive, which because of its cost will always come out when the Soviet player has a couple tanks and an AT. Even if it can penetrate more, it will die very quickly and there goes all your fuel investment.
I'll just say that for the fuel it takes to get to tier 4 and then actually produce those units, tier 4 is just too weak. But I want to focus on the Panther. Why would you buff soviet AT, nerf Panther hp, increase the fuel cost and nerf blitz all that the same time? Common sense screams "overkill!". And now playing the patch confirms the Panther and tier 4 are just not worth the cost.
Some changes were needed (I think buffing Soviet AT and changing blitz are a step in the right direction), but the Panther was untenable in 1v1 competitive games and now it's untenable in 1v1 and 2v2 games. It will always come out late and against Soviet combined arms (AT guns and several tanks) and it blows up very quickly when facing the same.
It really needs to be looked at. I suggest buffing back the HP and decreasing the fuel cost again.
"German Tier 4 is not viable in against good players any longer.
Before this patch the panzerwerfer and panther were used frequently -- the Brummbar is a waste of mp and fuel as everyone knows.
Now the Panther was beat to deaf the nerf stick. (1) Increased fuel price, (2) decreased HP and (3) buff Soviet AT all around. One or two of these three changes may have been merited, but doing all three!?! It's over the top and makes the Panther under perform for its cost.
Now the Panzerwerfer takes 90 seconds to reload, up from 54 seconds. The Panzerwerfer without vet was already pretty unreliable in hitting targets in the area -- the rockets are so scattered. Now firing every 90 seconds just makes this a wasted investment. Katyusha rockets didn't need a nerf either. Who was complaining about these units before the patch??
Please keep in mind you already nerfed tier 4 by making it more expensive and longer to get to. Now the Panther has been nerfed in three, possibly more, discrete ways and the Panzerwerfer has been hit hard with the nerf stick too.
Like I said above, some changes were needed, but when you simultaneously buff units and nerf their counters what else do you expect other than imba? Please consider rebalancing German Tier 4 to be more in line with its cost."
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