Varies widely on map and to an extent on build for me. On a muni-heavy map like Pripyat Winter, or a big map like Moscow Outskirts, it's very difficult for Soviets to effectively use up all their ammo on something worthwhile, so I'll have a ton left over by the midgame.
By contrast on Langres North or Kholodny Winter I often get sunk by just not having any ammo on account of the need to use mines, guards, AT nades, molotovs and Oorah, while having a difficult muni point to contest.
On Semoskiy, Minsk and Kholodny Ferma Summer, I'll normally not be floating more than I would as Ostheer.
Edit: on the general thing: as Ostheer I normally find that sinking ammo into something with definite long-term benefit is quite easy (see conscripts + tier 1, FHT, see a scout car, upgun, see pure con spam, LMG, floating and I expect Tier 3, 2 tellers or shreks). As Soviets, there are a lot of short-term situational ammo uses and mines, which are awesome and pretty generally underused at the terrible level I'm at. Even in high level play they're not used as much as they should be, tbh.
Because Soviet Sniper squad is more robust they don't go into stealth at the same rate as German counterpart. If you want increase its HP pool than change to its stealth mechanics is required otherwise the unit would be as robust as Soviet Sniper and without its downside.
I don't see this as a good thing.
I think that Snipers are fine as they are right now and from experience when they die it's down to the user's error rather than unit being flawed. People tend to overextend or don't micro correctly.
With the armour being the same, the German sniper would still be less survivable than a single shock troop model. Having 2 men with 40 hp is still going to be more survivable than one with 80 HP, just because direct mine hits, mortar hits, tank shells, sniper shot etc will always kill the Ost sniper but not always catch both Russian sniper models, and the Russian sniper also doesn't have to deal with Oorah.
Not saying they shouldn't take a look at the armour if it does turn out to be too survivable after an HP adjustment, but I'd be surprised if it made the Ostheer sniper much more attractive than the Soviet one.
Loving the early wire from NikCoH. Gotta try that. Lot of players skipping tier 2 as Ost lately... not sure it's a good idea to miss it out most of the time.
Agreed with OP. 2v2 can be enjoyable because of the teammate synergy aspect, but the doctrine design and linear teching has removed a ton of the actual strategy. Right now the toughest decisions you have to make are "T34 or T70" or "what DLC commander should I buy first" xD.
Clicking speed isn't everything. Maybe he's just slightly better at multitasking. 40 apm divided pretty evenly between 5-6 different units is much more effective than 60 apm divided between 3-4 units. Also there is too much of a lack of competition and strategy right now to go branding people top players. CondemnationWings and DanielD/Twister are the only CoH2 players that are impressive right now tbh. Several of todays supposedly high level CoH2 players were at best above average CoH1 players even with much more time invested in the game.
Yeah, clicking speed not being everything was basically my point. I'm talking about top players relatively speaking in this game at the moment in exactly the same way that Sluz is talking about click speeds being essential for competitive play in this game at the moment.
Obviously the level of competition isn't equal to that which VCoH had after a long lifespan and for various reasons (people not playing, not adapting etc.) the best players in this game right now aren't the people who were the best at VCoH (and vice versa). That's not terribly relevant to the question of whether the game is more of a clickfest than it was two months ago.
Kind of confused by this, Sluz - I don't at all understand how the patches would have an impact on what you're suggesting. Possibly the lots-of-scripts vs lots-of-grens into mutual tier 3 meta mean there are more grenading units early game but that's been the case ever since the MG change otherwise I can't see the health bulletins or infantry changes doing much to speed up the game.
And, for instance, Von Ivan, whose clicking isn't that fast, is still a top player.
Edit: dl'd a few replays of top players and run them through the analyser. It seems like their CPM is only a bit faster than mine in a typical game (in a few cases actually slower), but any of them would flatten me.
5 conscripts, molotovs, AT nades, Tier 2, T70 or T34. Take a PPSH commander. Add in AT guns, guards, shocks or a mortar as needed.
But, depending on map and the opponent, the old 3 con -> sniper is fine if you can manage them. M3s are fun but kind of underwhelming and the Ostheer have a couple of strats now (Ostruppen spam into T2, pure grenspam kinda as well) that shut them down.
Tier 2 Tier 3 seems generally very popular, some people still play T1-T4, and a fair few go conscript spam Tier 1 Tier 3.
Ostheer:
Usually it's Tier 1, between three and five grens (add LMGs to taste), and often an MG. Follow it with a halftrack, pgrens with shrek and then P-IVs. I think the meta's moved back from the bit where I'd see loads of Panthers. Tigers are more popular than ever.
If you have the DLC commanders, Ostruppen spam is OP and Assault Grenadiers into whatever you like is very viable if you want to do something a bit different.
That's 560mp, 120mu, and 55fu for a "hard counter" to a 160mp, 55fu unit that probably won't be able to do anything else later in the game (considering there won't be any Su-85's or Katyushas to flank if they went T3). Not the most efficient use of resources, don't you think?
I mean, just compare the cost of it to the T70. It costs 40 more manpower than that infantry killing beast and has no weapons by itself whatsoever. I'm not saying it's completely useless but it's pretty hard to find a place for it in the vast majority of situations.
This call-in and the Stug-E have too high of an opportunity cost (delayed T3 -> Ostwinds/Panzer IVs) versus the minimal utility they bring to the table (do not really fill any major gaps in the German arsenal). Compare these call-ins to the Mortar Halftrack and you'll see what I mean.
Frankly, this is actually a related issue to the M3 being a bit underpowered because both have a very limited window of usefulness before they are completely outclassed by tank spam or rendered a liability due to other AT.
It's not that cost efficient, but you do have the shreks and PGs, which are invariably pretty useful against T3, and I find the shrektrack is a good backup if you do end up going T3 after all (my view is that going T3 against T34s needs another AT unit to protect against rams, and having a mobile one is more helpful). Is the 200mp, 55 fuel a reasonable cost for the HT... it's probably a bit too much, but it's nice having the call-in and the option for some AT if you skip T2.
Yep, low health means he gets sniped by all manner of things that shouldn't, SU-85s being a particular culprit. Going from 40 to 80 hp would be a big improvement imo, insulating him from near misses, while he'd still die to a precision strike or something.
That particular call-in ability is just like the T34-85: extremely useful in some situations, but also extremely hard to save up for (560 manpower is a lot).
Frankly, that 55 fuel is better spent on teching to T3 rather than calling in a niche-usage German clown car.
I kind of enjoy the shrek-track. Eats T-70s - nice having a hard counter. Like, it could probably have the mp cost cut a little for what it is.
germans always have hard counters to all your units while you have a 50/50 chance of hard countering theirs.
It's a matter of timing. The M3flamer *will* kill an MG if you have no grens and are going for a scout car only as a reaction, at which point, you're down 240mp and possibly have a stolen MG to deal with. By the time the scout car gets out, conscripts will have AT nades and you won't be able to run down the M3 or snipers. The sniper will bleed your PGs to pieces, and you'll have no on-field reinforcement.
Against the conscript build, you have nothing to get conscripts out of buildings (bundlenades are too expensive, not that great against buildings and can be dodged), and the early MGs are likely to get stolen or forced off until your pgrens arrive. At which point, the conscripts can stall you out from the buildings and keep cutting you off from fuel until the T-70 comes out and mauls you.
It's not a matter of hard counters but of semi-competent usage. MGs are fairly easy for a decent player to counter. P-grens are not that difficult for a decent player to counter. P-IVs require a level of caution against both Soviet tiers if you don't have a huge fuel advantage and supplementary AT.
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