Profile of Mauser

I have beaten it on minsk. Dont remember if i still have the replay. I did it with well microed 222(using smoke to stop button etc), schreks, paks into an elefant with well placed tellers also a mortar which gets vetted. Maybe command tank if you have to. Scoutplane to scout lol. Fortified armor doctrine is your friend.

Yeah, Holding out for a panther is quite hard, you can do it with clever tellers and paks/schreks but its hard. spending the 1000mp and 280 fuel is quite a lot and i would usually prefer saving up for an elefant, backed by t3 p4/stug/ostwind. Maybe if brummbar wasnt so shit it would be worth it to skip t3, but currently i would rather have two p4's or T2 + a single elefant in stead of a panther.

If you go t2 and wait for elefant its actually cheaper than teching and building a single panther.

I understand it is frustrating watching it retreat, however I have seen this last guy get killed upon retreat many times.

The fact that he can even retreat is the problem. Even if he gets away 60% of the time, it is still not balanced that he is even allowed to retreat alone when no other mortars can retreat at one man.

DISCLAIMER: please people read the thread topic, it is about the squad retreating at one man, not about nerfing other stats of the 120mm. People keep whining that the 120mm shouldnt be nerfed. I agree its damage/range need not really be nerfed, it is more about the ability to retreat at one man, and how it is the only mortar with that ability
(which is also, as a side note, completely unrealistic since it weighs 280kg)

The 120mm is fine as it is. It's in a crappy doctrine, it fires incredibly slowly, its DPS is virtually non-existent considering how often this thing misses and the basis of the unit is RNG.

Apart from the occasional Insta-gib, the 120mm really doesen't pose much of a threat due to its low rate of fire, accuracy and cost (12 ***** pop! Huge drain on your MP income).

This is the only Soviet weapon an Osteer player would sacrifice whole/damaged squads to retrieve. A 120mm in osteer hands would be completely uncounterable with the soviet arsenal. Nothing wrong with one man survivability.

I disagree. If you are careless enough to lose it (taking into consideration its immense range and 6 man team) you deserve to have it stolen.

For those interested, the russian 120mm weighed 280kg. Don't tell me one man can haul that shit away. The smaller 80mm(german) and 82mm(russian) ones weiged 62kg and 56kg's respectively. Still a bit heavy for one man and hence the last guy (correctly) retreats. BTW these weights don't even include shells.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1938_mortar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/82-PM-41
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8_cm_Granatwerfer_34

Realism aside, The 120mm is very useful(a lot of power and range) and i dont think its docrine is crappy at all. It shouldnt be retreatable at one man, that is simply a bug that needs to be fixed. Any german weapon captured by the russians can also turn the tide of the battle so this isn't a factor at all. The bottom line is, dont let your stuff get stolen. A german 80mm mortar has effectively 3 men. A russian 82mm mortar is effectively 5 men. The 120mm should also be effectively 5 men. Its just common sense.

Either all mortars should retreat with one man or all mortars should abandon at one man.

The thing is even a player who is prepared for a kv8 is still gonna lose squads to it.

Even if you have a p4, shcreks, and paks out, the kv takes so long to die, it will still kill a lot of your infantry. Grens can't faust it, and the soviet will usually be able to suicide it into your base while the p4 is shooting at it and still be cost effective since it will easily kill 2 or 3 squads. Obviously if your p4 is on the other side of the map it will be even worse. The russian can also choose not to suicide it and back up after killing a few squads, making it even more efficient. The problem is not that it murders infantry, it is that it takes out whole squads in seconds even after retreating, so you cant reinforce them.

Also, not all german players rush for p4. This is a dumb and boring strat and remember it takes 225 fuel to get your first p4, when you include techng costs, compared to 135 fuel for kv. Now the kv does take 4 cps, but usually it will be out before a p4 comes especially if you didnt rush for a p4. I personally dont always go for p4 since paks and schreks are better vs su85. Now I have won against the kv8 and I have lost against it, it isn't unbeatable. However this is not the question. The question is wether the unit is too good for its cost, and whether it is slightly op.

The main problems are its cost efficiency, ability to one shot burn squads (very high dps also on retreat) and durability. The brummbar is laughable in comparison and is the closest german equivalent.