Who cares? The IS-2 is not cost effective right not, but it's not because it loses horribly to a Tiger.
We know its not cost effective, we know its a crap unit, however its a bit ridiculous it still loses to a tiger when shooting it in the rear. |
This the probably the most retarded discussion I've seen yet on this forum, and I've seen some dumb shit.
The Tiger should beat the IS-2 because it's an AT focused tank while the IS-2 is an AI focused tank.
HOWEVER, that comparison is meaningless in discussions of whether the IS-2 needs a buff (I believe it does). The only discussion that matters is whether a unit is COST EFFECTIVE.
The discussion isn't whether or not the tiger should beat the is-2.
The discussion is that the tiger beats the is-2 with the tiger firing into the front armor of the is-2 while the is-2 is firing into the rear armor of the tiger. |
No it was never refuted and I provided evidence that proven conscripts are weaker, a measly 2 extra men does not change that. Guards are 360 manpower and 30mp to reinforce. You can not use them as your main infantry. Conscripts are useless and with the recent changes to the at grenades makes their situation even worst.
What evidence did you provide that proves conscripts are weaker?
What part of BOTH CONSCRIPTS AND GRENADIERS HAVE AN EFFECTIVE 640 HP do you not understand? |
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You keep saying they are more fragile, it keeps getting refuted, okay.
Guards cost the same as panzer grens. Shocks are a tad overpriced but they are still supreme in anti infantry.
You argued that man for man conscripts are weaker; which is true, but if you examine the effective health of conscripts vs grenadiers, they are identical. I don't understand where your squishiness argument is coming from.
Conscripts aren't intended to be useless, nor are they later in the game. They still receive flexibility upgrades and still have a purpose late game for vehicle snaring. |
In this game having more troops does not "balances it out" you can just sneeze and bam one conscript is dead, metaphorically speaking of course. Bars were fine for me they gave rifles nice fire power to hold their own so they can be useful the the units they are supporting and suppression fire was good at stopping charges from stormtroopers,panzer grenadiers and the like, adding the ppsh will help but not immensely as the main problem still stands, they are to fragile to be used effectively. Hit the dirt was nerfed in to oblivion so its not longer is effective as it used to be.
I really don't understand the point you're trying to make. We've proven ad nauseum that conscripts aren't any squishier than grenadiers or even pgrens. Conscripts are also not intended to scale as well as grenadiers do, hence them lacking any mid to late game upgrades. Game design probably intends for you to rely on a doctrinal elite infantry. If they are not up to snuff for you, then that is a different design complaint. |
So 2.67 shots, in 12.73s.
Hardly unbalanced, considering other asymmetric differences.
Mind you that is the tiger shooting the front of an is-2 versus the is-2 shooting the rear of the tiger. |
Tiger's time to kill an IS-2 shooting it in the front at point blank is: 88.72 seconds or 14.61 shots (15)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApmrrrPr20ncdEdSU29vWTR4b2dYWEJNdnZvb09xWlE#gid=0
IS-2's time to kill a tiger shooting it in the rear at point blank is: 101.45 seconds or 11.94 shots (12)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApmrrrPr20ncdFJ2MkNJTV9Pbk9CSDkwTXZJLXp2THc#gid=0
The tiger has more hp, more (rear) armor, more penetration and reloads 3 seconds faster than the IS-2. |
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All infantry bar snipers have 80 hp. Conscripts have 1 armor for an effective health of 480. Grenadiers also have 80 health with 1.5 armor, giving 33% more hp, for an effective 480 hp against small arms fire (which all have 1 penetration).
If anything, conscripts are MORE survivable against grenades, flamers, tank rounds, artillery and etc. because they have more raw health and models to survive. |
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To be honest the 120mm running away with 1 man is an animation issue, but it isn't game breaking and the effort to fix it is probably not worth it. It's probably written into the engine. |
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Well a question was asked, and I answered it with game code. I am unsure about how shrecks drop, which could be a point of discussion. |
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