Jurassic Park. |
Fusiliers aren't scary because they don't get shreks.
The only reason Volks are ever an issue is that they are a t0 unit that can also be upgraded with the most powerful handheld anti-tank weapon in the game. |
It absolutely is appropriate for units to be able to throw while suppressed. Otherwise there are literally no ways to counter good MG42 play. Grenades are the counter to isolated MG's, and the reason they shouldn't operate alone.
MG-42 are not freaking 'infantry counters' at the same sodding price tag as a a basic infantry squad. They are Infantry. Support. Weapons. They support your army by slowing down and rendering units combat ineffective, with the ability to target several squads or a single high priority one.
Underlined and bolded a point in your argument that completely contradicts your disagreement.
The point is that MGs of any kind are pretty incapable to keeping a single unit away from being able to deliver some kind of grenade. No MG can really hold off a frontal assault without a grenade that forces them to move. Most infantry can get into grenade throwing range before even being suppressed, let alone getting pinned.
In many ways this completely undercuts any merit to flanking maneuvers because it's usually more work and risk than reward than simply telling a squad to march forward and decrew an MG for some munitions. |
Everytime I think about the base infantry for either Axis faction I always come back to the fact that CoH1's Wehrmacht was so expertly designed.
Ostheer Grenadiers function so much more solidly as 5 man squads, but then their LMG42s easily make them too powerful. If they had an MP40 upgrade instead they'd become vCoH Volksgrenadiers. Except for the whole rifle nades thing.
If OKW Volksgrenadiers exchanged their shreks for fausts, then they'd become very close to vCoH Volksgrenadiers, except with hand grenades. All they'd need is something like an mp40 package.
Panzerfausts were key because they were not once-and-done anti-tank upgrades like shreks. That was designated for more expensive/specialized infantry. And for that reason, I don't understand why it can't be Obersoldaten that get shreks, not volks or sturmpioneers. That would REALLY make those units the elites of OKW, and probably have them function more along the lines that Relic seems to want them to be.
Volks with fausts could still be a deterrent from unopposed vehicles. I mean, they've got grenades to thrown at infantry already which is already a powerful option for cheap infantry.
Leave Sturmpioneers the same.
Exchange shreks on volks for panzerfausts.
Give Obersoldaten the option for shreks. It could even be some super penetrating or accurate shrek, or a shrek that could be fired on the move.
Shreks would be delayed, and wouldn't be so spammable. OKW already have the Raketen available from match start, so it's not like they're denied any AT at any point in the game. No fuel even has to be spent to field an ATG that scales to the endgame. Also, Sturmpioneers can lay mines. |
People should also keep in mind that Stormtroopers come in only one doctrine. The benefits that Stormtroopers have over Pgrens simply aren't enough to justify a commander choice, IMO.
Essentially the unit can't be compared to stock units, except for in excruciatingly specific instances, because of the circumstances of being from only one commander. (One that is now mainly nerfed after it made its money like all the other DLC commanders.) |
Crits occur when infantry drop below a certain percentage of health.
Infantry below 50% have a chance to be instantly killed. Negative cover just makes it really easy for infantry to drop below 50% health. |
It's not exactly an assumption.
Also, it appears that the Mod Tools do not reflect the most recent build of CoH2. I wonder what version of CoH2 the Mod Tools are running.
Pioneers still have the same sight radius apparently. |
If I recall from the mod tools correctly, all single shot rifles deal 16 damage per hit. Infantry have 80 health.
Grenadiers can deal 64 damage in one volley if every shot hits. Enough to heavily damage one entity, but not kill anything.
Riflemen and Volksgrenadiers can deal 80 damage in one volley if every shot hits, enough to kill one entity.
Conscripts can deal 96 in one volley, so only 5 out of 6 conscripts need to hit to kill an infantry entity.
Grenadiers are vulnerable to losing 25% of their damage output in the first volley, whereas they cannot ever kill an infantry entity in return with a full squad.
As much as I am loathe to ever use straight stats in a vacuum to make a point, it is a reality to keep in mind.
A single gren squad can never kill a rifleman or conscript entity in one volley. In addition, losing a single entity as a grenadier makes it impossible to recrew any support weapon without losing a squad.
This all changes with the LMG42 upgrade, but at the same time, LMG42s don't provide any defensive benefits. Those vet 0 allied infantry can still take a Gren squad down 25% in one volley. Without LMG42s, no gren squad can kill a full health infantry entity in one volley like every other rifle infantry.
For this reason, no matter how balanced for long or short range infantry squads are, 4 man squads of any kind are at a significant disadvantage just on the ramifications of their squad size alone.
And I'm not necessarily calling out Grens for being UP or Allied infantry being OP or anything like that, but I think it's a very interesting relationship between the base infantry squads. I've been seeing a lot of threads lately discussing how weak Ostheer seems early game, and I feel that this is largely apart of that reason.
The squad wipe potential is another issue that isn't early game specific, but also related to 4man squad fragility. But everyone I think knows what is at the root of that issue. |
Any time I make a Pack Howitzer, I realize I've gone Captain and spent 400 more manpower on something that gets overrun like nobody's business because chances are I don't have any kind of crowd control from the LT tier.
No mines, no MGs, no infantry unit with stock BARs.
If I have gone LT and then gone captain for Pack Howitzers, it's usually already way too late in the game. Plus I'd be floating a ton of fuel by that point. |
As an OKW player, I can decide which I need more: munitions or fuel.
As a Soviet, Ostheer, and American player, if I don't have enough of a resource there's nothing I can do about it without a doctrine choice.
But honestly, OKW doesn't translate from 1v1s to team games without the faction design going completely bonkers. Anything that's true for OKW in 1v1s is a completely different matter for team matches. Any argument anyone makes about OKW for 1v1s will be beset by the realities of how broken they are in team games. Anything addressing team games will be complained about because OKW functions very differently in a 1v1 environment.
It's lose-lose discussing OKW's resource management design. They're largely a broken faction as a result. |