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-Beta test was made with a sudo OH/SU mortar. It was fine. Relic implemented single player turbo mortar.
-Not even half of Mirage patch was implemented.
I know. (Also to further clarify, I mean the May Preview Patch, not his Competitive mod). But please understand that this is at the heart of why I've been a little critical of the balance and design decisions of the mod team.
Damn, some people really are fatalist.
I've really been trying not to be. I mean I started out by insisting that they need to be careful about the changes they make because A) Relic has to take them, interpret them, and implement them. and B) trying to tweak combat stats and performance would be an endless cycle of balancing. I also insisted not to just make changes because they are in the scope. Not every light vehicle necessarily needs changes, especially when changes compound other changes being made (like squad formations.)
Cause light vehicle was not prominent before July patch? T70, Aecs, 222s, P2, Stuart/M20s.
Heavy rear armor bullshit? Mine wipe and tripwire flare cheese? Random heavy engine damage? Tactical nade lobbing while suppress? AT weapon sniping infantry? Deflection stun? Gunner loop of dead? Cpt getting free bazookas? Brumbar no longer useless!
Look, I'm a huge, huge proponent of all the bug fixes, quality of life changes, and changes that affect all factions and game modes (like the nades thing.) Those functional issues and inconsistencies being fixed are an overwhelming boon to the game.
I do love the AT satchel functionality in its v1.4 form, but that's also because I thought that's how Satchels should have functioned since Beta. I disagree greatly with the previous changes to mines, but that's because I greatly agree with the formation changes of this patch. I felt the mine changes ignored the issues that formation changes attempts to deal with, but I accepted them as accomplishing a much needed goal. (Incidentally I'd suggest reverting the mine changes in a version of WBP to see how many wipes occur.)
I won't shy away from what I think are good changes nor will I allow that to overshadow what I find to be poor changes. The opportunity to test a mod in an official sense is an incredible opportunity. As much as I respect their efforts, I fear they are squandering the bulk of their potential.
Great post. I feel exactly the same way. Players say coh2 isnt balanced, maybe it is their fault to. They got the tools now to make it more balanced, stop the whine and post good feedback.
The only modding efforts that have wver.been considered have been mirages and now this version. Anyone else utilizing mods and maps to produce working solutions and suggestions have been denied all chances to have their efforts acknowledged let alone implemented.
If it is happening now it's solely at the discretion of the official mod team, not relic. Sure you might think that's a step in the right direction, but it creates a more adversarial atmosphere. We aren't actually working with the mod team, we are competing with them for the limited time and space to have ideas tested and considered by relic.
Which is why alternatives to penal ptrs aren't even being considered for the bulk of this mod tests run.
I don't really understand the level of vitriol on a balance mod. This is a testing mod, a platform to try things out. If you hate them, and penal PTRS are definitely hated, you can say so here without insulting people and get feedback. My goodness we complained to high heaven that Relic never talked, now you have modders talking directly to us about balance and everyone is attacking them.
Right. So after literal years of community members effectively producing and delivering content and analysis to deaf ears, a mod team if formed to produce a mod that has seems to serve as a buffer of communication. The mod was already made and released for what is considered fine tuning, not testing, before the community was even informed of their efforts.
They are doing us all a service, and we can help them by giving good feedback.
Are they though outside of qol changes and bug fixes? It seems more apparent that the only items they will consider from the community without like sixty replays are bug fixes. There is no community engagement on balance design.
To be clear, I am not saying everything about this mod is great, or even good, only that the way in which we can interact and offer advice is the first time this has ever happened for COH2. Let's use that opportunity to improve the game, as I don't know how many more chances we will get.
This is the second time this has happened for coh2. The first time this happened we saw okw be broken by removing volks schrwcks without actually redesigning anything and giving USF the turbo mortar without redesigning anything.
The game saw a whole lot of problems as a result and spawned the exceptionally stale light vehicle meta this patch is pretending to address.
Ever since v1.0 Penals were found out to be a failure, we realised we need to give something back to them. Since we are not all-knowing and wanted to explore multiple options, we gave all of these options to see which ones (if any) could work.
Thus, without having to wait for the patch to update (every week), both the players and the balance team could try out different configurations.
Thus, as a result of Penals having access to this smörgåsbord of upgrades/options, we were able to address bugs and refine all 3 options: PPSh/Flamers, PTRS and AT satchel. We could do all of this within 2 weeks, as opposed to the 6+ weeks that swapping upgrades in/out would require.
You gave them PTRS, gave them more PTRS, and are now sticking with PTRS.
You've got to stop confusing testing and playing.
I can test the changes and see if the changes aren't bugged or broken.
I can play the game and see if the changes work for the game.
I can't exactly do both at the same time.
All factions, and all tiers now get appropriate counters for every single possible light vehicle. If you believe that any single vehicle/strat can shut down a particular opening tier, please let us know.
Was that the issue of the stale light vehicle meta? Ostheer has panzerfausts and teller mines leading into paks and panzergrens but somehow Stuarts and T-70s are just as apart of this stale meta.
Metagame comes after the maps, comes after the balance and design. Rushing a unit your opponent can't counter (yet) is, and always will be, a central strategy. It's better to reduce that impact than to remove its possibility.
Penals having PTRS doesn't make their combination with Guards any less powerful.
Penals having PTRS doesn't do anything but give a subpar option in addition to the other AT options soviets have early game. (Mines, ZiS, con PTRS, a faster T3, and the m42 at worst, and Guards at best.)
A tier that combines the maxim and the ZiS is still going to overshadow the tier that doesn't have an ability to handle team weapons or vehicles bigger than a kubel.
Maxim + ZiS in T2 is a bigger factor than Penals having PTRS or not for the strength of T1.
But the issue is the combination of guards with penals, which is actually just the ability for guards being a crutch for handling light vehicle rushes. (Which I isn't entirely true, imo.) Guard Motor is just a power commander and had dominated Soviet 1v1 since launch.
I just wanted to note that I have yet to upgrade penals with PTRS in a match where my explicit goal wasn't "upgrade PTRS on penals and test it."
Every time I've been met with 222s or flak HTs I've just... Gone T2 for an AT gun, gone Guard Motor doc, or used conscripts. (Well not cons against the flak HT.) But still, as much as I love AT Satchels, behind a PTRS upgrade is not where it should be locked.
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