Profile of Array

I'm fairly sure that the most aknowledged source is 1:1.3 casaulty ratio in favor of the germans, of course this also includes romanian and hungarian forces and what not, but they are still axis.

The OKW concept in this game is historically bogus , german quality of troops was best in 1941, worse in 42, then worse in 43 and worse in 44 and so on.

And what does exactly this throwing away of brigades mean?

Throwing away of brigades (say 2000 - 5000 men) means for example placing untrained troops in the path of the advancing German army. Troops who might fire all their ammo in a panic before the Germans entered effective range and then were cut down bu the infantry, it means 1000's of penal troops going into battle being encircled and dying before the unit being reincarnated (same unit number/name) with fresh troops and being sent in again with the same thing happening before the unit being reincarnated and the same thing happening... The most famous is probably at Stalingrad where the Soviets were hanging onto a few hundred yards of the west bank and on the decisive day sending hundreds of men without weapons across the river to hold it open. In operations around Rhzev a million Soviet troops got chewed up

These are all documented examples. As I've stated in the end the kill ratio ended up not so unfavourably to the Soviets but mainly due to the overwhelming numbers they possessed meaning in the long run they pulled it back particularly when all the 'veteran' German troops had succumbed to the Soviet tidal wave and they got into the old men and boys stuff.

It is also untrue to say that very few troops survived close combat - the vast majority did (unless badly trained 'conscript' spam) however if you keep goiung into close combat then you become more likely to die.


This is all besides the point and I dont wish to derail the thread. I am not arguing that conscripts are not too weak and the changes might be wrong - they may be, I haven't played them enough this patch but I am arguing that I understand the concepts behind the decisions.

I answer to why they got a received accuracy nerf I believe it was possibly to keep their survivability static relative to a number of other units who lost dps versus them

I'd love an official answer as to why conscripts were given a received accuracy penalty

I don't think anyone here, axis or ally, thinks that's a justified nerf

But its not in isolation - many other infantry types have also changed often to their detriment - the nerfs have taken different forms in order to emphasise different approaches to playing each type of infantry. This is the nerf/buff for for the cons - they die easier but cause more damage when alive unlike say the sturmpios who got more survivability in exchange for less dps.

Which is not cost effective. And just hurts you more by feeding enemy units with veterancy that will cause a snowball effect. The more you lose the more they gain the more you lose....


If they want Conscripts to be merely meat shields make all three of their vet have armor in it. They should be as durable as Volks.

Volks too arent meant to be combat troops. But Volks arent a bleed like scripts are.

You are right in the danger if feeding too many to the enemy but you are meant to overwhelm early game in this way. As we know they don't scale.

Going back to the ww2 theme argument Volks were rarely used in the way soviet conscripts were. They tended to be in secondary defensive roles whilst core german infantry made all the offensive attacks.

The numbers may or may not be right but I respect what I think relic is trying to do. The real problem is the rest of the soviet faction infantry design which has been muddled and chopped up as witnessed by the early changes if penals from long range damage to short range glass cannons overlapping roles with cons and the move of guards to a doctrinal choice. In hindsight I think what would have been fun would be fodder conscripts giving way to a stronger AI guard unit later in the game which the cons would act as support to. I guess this kind of happens if it weren't for the halfway house of guards as semi AT and a bit meh vs inf. plus being doctrinal

My feeling is that relic may work further on the other soviet faction once these changes have settled

or walking somewhere else and setting up

I suspect we may yet see some Soviet reworking. This patch appears to be about rebalancing existing infantry play and pushing more tactical play styles. W th so many changes it would make sense to bed this in before trying to open up alternate build orders and play styles within factions.

Evidence for this is the absence of alterations for t70 and su76 and possibly the mysterious removal of the received accuracy for weapons teams hinting at further changes to come.