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I haven't faced/used the King Tiger myself, but from facing/using its little brother the Tiger 1 the best way to take one out, I'd guess, would be to keep it still (M20 mine, AT riflenade, block pathing with another vehicle, Stuart stun, or wait till it engages and cannot withdraw) then P47 rocket strafe it. Judging it's performance against, again, the Tiger 1, one pass should take out 1/4 or more of its health. The plane passes over three times, and you can finish it off with Jacksons. Just be sure to wait til it's further away from the base flaks and the OBK flak truck before using it. |
I didn't say it was an integral part, I said it's what you can do if he pushes into your base. It shouldn't even get to that point at all.
In order to rush the AAHT, you have to skip grenades, which are America's only early game counter to machine guns. You should have most of the map capped. You can also use mines. Teller and HT mines for example. Upgunned Scout car can beat it easily just by staying in front of it, due to its firing arc. You can use smoke mortars to neuter its effectiveness, you can spread your infantry out so they don't all get suppressed at once. There's lots of things you can do, so instead of just pronouncing the match up imbalanced go and try things.
Too many threads with people whining for nerfs already.
Volley fire pins MGs, and you can bumrush with your rifles. No need for smoke grenades that early. 251 arrives later than the AAHT in nearly all situations. If you don't get flamethrowers with your munitions you'll need a mortar which adversely affects your field presence, and REs being so cheap means minesweepers are a no brainer. He will have most of the map capped if you rely on MGs, since he will flank any aggressive push. If you have grenadiers they die straight up to rifles. The halftrack will beat 2 222s head on, and if anybody actually manages to kill the AAHT by using the tiny blind spot against someone that isn't brain dead please, please upload the replay because I'd love to see the impossible happen. And smoke mortars.... No , really, smoke mortars?
People have been AAHT rushing in the alpha ever since it was moved to T2 and given a price drop, and really, you NEED a pak (or a very lucky teller, since you'll be able to afford about one by the time it hits). I don't see any soft counter out there. |
Just stand in the arc of your base machine guns and those will kill his halftrack.
I've killed flame halftracks in my base with just infantry before, same tactics work here.
The AAHT has twice the front armor and three times the rear armor compared to the flamer track. At the same time, the Dshk base MG has more penetration than the MG42 bunker if I'm not wrong. The AAHT has a longer range than the MG bunker, and of course can just drive out of the arc into the base itself. As long as it doesn't get fausted (which it shouldn't unless you're bad, since it has extreme range, suppresses, and kills infantry up close in one burst) it can leave the base and self repair in about 30 seconds, meaning the base MGs really don't mean much.
Not to mention, if retreating everything to base and relying on the MG bunkers to save you is an integral part of the ostheer vs usf matchup, something is seriously, seriously wrong. |
How, exactly? He buys himself 2-3 minutes and maybe a few resource points, but this game is so forgiving as long as you don't lose any squads you can just poop out a puma or something. With that kind of start you're going to have map control against Americans anyway if he doesn't get early nades.
You can't end a game in less than 25 minutes no matter what you do, unless the opponent throws in the towel.
As ostheer, if you don't have a pak out he drives into your base, kills all your squads and takes your MGs while also capturing the entire map, which is game over. Unless you're suggesting getting 7CP for the puma in 6 minutes... |
I've been doing well with gren, gren, mg, mg, sniper. Depending on the map, I might reverse the order of the last two.
Going with that many T1 units leaves you open to the AAHT, which will end the game on the spot. Sniper could work but with the precariousness of the matchup as it is I don't think such a risky unit is advisable, at least early on.
I go with the first pioneer building the barracks, second pioneer capping and denying buildings. Especially important since REs in a building cannot be dislodged without a mortar, and you can't afford a mortar early since you need AT. Flamers are equipped on the pioneers ASAP for flank defense, then S-mines/tellers/medic bunkers as required. Then 3 MGs, placed defensively. I try to cover at least one fuel/munition point so my income isn't terrible. I don't play aggressive because the moment you over-extend, the US can flank and it's a nightmare pushing back up (though the flamers help against rifles stalling in buildings). No grenadiers because they lose to REs, Rifles, and Assault Engineers, and there's no need for faust.
Subsequently, I get a Pak out for the AAHT, followed by a second pak if he doesn't suicide the AAHT in. If he does, then Panzergrenadier/Halftrack/Mortar depending on the situation. Either way, I try to get 3 Paks and a Halftrack for maximum camp power so the MGs can stay in the field. The mortar deals with ambulance + major or 4 man crewed weapons well. Then follow up with StuG E, which allows you to deal with unsuppressed lieutenants or bar'd/m191a1'd riflemen. Finally Tiger, which you should win the game with the rest of your army if you keep away from the P47 rocket run. |
Problem is that if you nerf the US halftrack you must nerf the OKW halftrack as well. Without the US halftrack the US have no counter for a good 1-2 mins.
Reduce OKW starting fuel to 0, increase cost of US halftrack to 70? It's a very lethal vehicle and would definitely not be overpriced even at that level. Or, the autocannon could retain anti-vehicle potency while losing much of the infantry-destroying power it has to reduce impact as a shock unit. At the same time the OKW halftrack would be delayed by 4 minutes (currently OKW hcan set up the trucks right out the gate). |
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The US Halftrack kills Wehrmacht vs USF matchup- if you get flanked once and pushed off the map, you won't have the 45 fuel to tech and the game ends when the halftrack arrives at 5-6 minutes.
If you don't get flanked you'll get the pak out the same time as the halftrack, which means the halftrack will make all your frontline units retreat before the pak can set up in an ideal position. Then when you push out from the base the halftrack will be everywhere your pak isn't, meaning you need either A) 2 or 3 paks, which BAR'd/M1919A1'd rifles will make a costly and useless investment even if the halftrack dies or B), a StuG E many CPs later.
Also Volley fire, which is still incredibly stupid. |
About the new Blitz, how the hell the Ost Blitz is much better than the OKW one? Isn't it supposed to be the reversed with OKW being elite? And with the new buffed PzIV, looks like my poor old T-34/76 will be dusted again. Now Soviet T3 is only good against OKW.
P4 was buffed against infantry only. If anything, it's worse pound for pound against the T34/76 because it got a cost increase while not gaining any anti-tank potential. |
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I had a captured one of these one-shot a vet 5 King Tiger, I kid you not. The Raketenwerfer went on to one-shot two more of my KTs that game. Maybe an Expert AI bonus gave it extra damage, but still it's pretty insane. |
Strummingbird, that's more of a comment on how absolutely shit most of the US commanders are.
Honestly I would disagree with that. Assault engineers do boatloads of damage despite being fragile (I recall a post stating that they do more damage than assault grens). They also have flamers, which are very useful since the US faction gets none normally. Add to that the demo charges and repair and you get some very nice utility. Wolverines are getting a buff next patch, and you can go T2-T3 and call in armor with the 105mm which has solid armor/health for a medium tank.
Rifleman doctrine gives your rifles flamers, which kinda defeats the point of ass engis except as a very early call in. Phosphorus drop used to be insanely good, not sure how it does now. Veteran rifles take longer to build but are definitely very strong , and the crown jewel- the Easy Eight- is a better allrounder than any other medium tank (on par or better than the T3485).
Just to compare, it has 215 armor and 175/165/155 penetration, more than any other medium tank (bar vet 2 P4s, armor-wise). Good speed , good reload, lots of utility with smoke, has vehicle crews to self-repair, for 10 more fuel than a Panzer IV. |
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