and thats the point. its not ONE OF THE ASPECTS, its ALL of them combined. therefore: this ability could be nerfed by raising its cost to 350 or whatever, by making it target a sector instead of a circle or by removing pin and debuff.
But if it can be escaped from by simply moving units out of its circle, why should it be nerfed? If it prevented timely escape, then yes, it would be OP and would need cost increase/stat decrease/whatever, but after reviewing its aspects -- including the fact that its circle can be escaped from -- why should its stats be nerfed in addition to having that counterplay of being able to avoid it?
and what are you saying about "certain area"? is the area right now the certain area? or what?
"Certain area" = defined area. If your point is that the defined/certain circle is not limiting its effects, then my first post in this thread agrees that it's OP. Otherwise, my point is that this certain/defined area can be escaped from, so it's not OP. Simple.
if arty cover was only on the fuel point for example, it would have been WAY smaller and ALL arty covers would have had less effect.
But it matters not one bit, because the only reason you and your teammate's vehicles were hit by that arty was that you did not move them out of the circle. The arty doesn't have to be limited to some point if it can be avoided in its entirety as it is. |
you cannot just look at one singe specific point and say that something is op or not
That's not what I said. I said you should review the different aspects separately before making the conclusion on whether the ability is OP.
An example:
* An arty ability is powerful enough to obliterate a tank -- separate judgment says it's OP for a one-click skill-less ability;
* It can be avoided by reacting in a timely manner and moving the tank in question out of its area -- separate judgment says it's reasonable;
Then you combine the two and make the final conclusion. But you wanted to debate all of the ability's aspects at the same time without making your judgment on my point that it can be evaded like other circle-targeting abilities.
you just watched my replay
Yes, and I didn't see a single example of this arty's circle preventing timely escape from it. It can be escaped from just like any other offmap ability. |
1- Sector abilities tends to either be focus around the flag position or through the sector zone. In either case, the area of effect is way smaller than AC (arty cover) and you are limited to a specific region.
Sector abilities tend to be stronger due to this in comparison to pinpoint abilities.
Do you have a video/replay where a player on the receiving end of the Tactical Support Regiment artillery attempts to evade the circle but can not do so in time, in contrast to other circle-based or sector-based offmaps? |
a) you can't just look at at all point while ignoring the others
b) i wasn't just talking about round abilities
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying that you should look at one subject at a time to make separate judgment on those in order to be able to accurately see what makes an ability/unit/commander OP, if anything. That's why you will find separate arguments on cost/stats/CP in any reasonable discussion of a certain ability/unit when debating balance in here.
This was your reply to my comment on your post -- both points concern escaping the arty, so yes, were were just talking about that.
And sorry, nothing personal but I can't take a random screenshot as a proof that the arty hits units outside of its circle. But as I said, even if that is the case, my first post in this thread said it would be OP indeed if it wasn't restricted to specific area effect, so I've nothing to do with that point. |
as i already wrote, the ability hits units that are clearly out of the circle. test it with cheatcommandsmod or watch my latest replay
I watched the replay and didn't see a single case where Axis armour was clearly out of the circle and hit with the arty. There were a couple of instances (such as this one) where your vehicles were on the edge of the circle (or just backing out of it when a shell was launched), but that =/= "clearly out" of it.
And if what you said was true, I clearly pointed out in my first post in this thread that "As long as the arty ability is limited to specific area and requires LoS" it is okay, so that would be another matter and not a case in our debate whether a circle-based offmap is OP.
strength/counters is what rather counts. the only other offmap ability is sector thingy in the okw jt doc, and it costs the same i believe, doesnt pin, doesnt give some 2*reload debuff, is not that fast, not that precise and doesnt do that much damage.
But none of these features/stats will matter if you move out of its way, which is what you and I were debating in here. Let's not mix up different points. Focusing on one subject at a time -- and making separate conclusions on them -- is how you evolve a discussion.
you argue without looking at a lot of facts
I'm looking at facts relevant to the discussion I'm participating in. We were discussing whether an ability circle is OP compared to sector activation, and that is what I was discussing. If you want to compare stats of the ability, that is a different discussion. |
as the circle is much larger than the usual sector and additionally round, which means that from the center the edge is equidistant, this is much harder to do
I've never had any issues with escaping from an offmap ability circle -- there's a reason why people who used to (rightfully) complain about not being able to escape from the Airborne Company P-47 rocket strike have had no issues with it since it was changed to circle targeting. As long as you pay attention to the minimap and move your units accordingly, you should have ample time to get out of the way of this arty ability too. If you have any replays/videos that show such attempts fail because of the size of the targeting circle, you can share those with us.
that is the counter to close the pocket aswell. but close the pocket has additional counters.....
I can't see how each ability has to have two counters in order not to be considered OP -- I've never seen this claim before, if that is your point. Also I listed three other offmap abilities that are only countered by moving out of their area, and they never get called OP because of that.
I will not even respond to that shameful ad hominem attack in the post I'm replying to. |
Sector artillery: defensive ability only affecting a single sector, not a circular area. Simil could be said about OKW assault artillery
I can't see how having to evade a circle rather than a sector is OP.
Close the pocket: requires HUGE planification and execution. Stills allows counterplay (decapping).
Yes, and the counterplay to the Tactical Support Regiment arty is to evade it until it stops. |
|
This review looks to be helpful and features good insight, so I'm marking this green. Obviously the OP can post more questions if required. |
|
As long as the arty ability is limited to specific area and requires LoS, I believe there's nothing OP about it. There are other abilities that require the player on the receiving end to evacuate an area before the ability runs out/is interrupted (Airborne Company P-47 rocket strike, Stuka cannon strafe, Sector Artillery, Close the Pocket), so the argument "you can't enter the area as long as it's active so you lose map control" is not unique to this ability. |
If Relic have introduced a design concept which links to any WWII unit which had a dubious reputation, it will almost certainly be by accident.
Well it doesn't reflect well on their design process if they snatched the Brandenburger badges thinking "Oh, look! A nice infiltration unit badge we can use for Stormtroopers and JLI!" without first reading up on the unit. |
Georgia
Relic Entertainment
cblanco ★ 
보드카 중대 
VonManteuffel 
Heartless Jäger 
