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Well 5man Grens do not really have a definite situation where they win and where they lose. This is how mainlines are should be balanced.
Almost always, you will have the same number of squads as your enemy. But each player needs a skill based way to out play their oppponent.
So each mainline has a situation where they win and where they lose, and players have to work on putting them in situations where they win
For IS and Cons, it’s being behind the cover they build
For volks and Rifles, it’s closing the distance
For grenadiers, it’s staying at range
(These are generalization to illustrate a point they are not always true)
But 5man Grens just performed well in all situations, because they were all around better
But now they are bad, because that all around better turned to all around worse.
Like, what situation should the ostheer player be putting their VLS Grens in where they will win?
Close range? Long range? Behind cover?
Now, They don’t have good enough long range dps to win reliably there, and don’t have goood enough short range dps to win there either, and they can’t build cover
Maybe make them a cover displacemt unit and give them incendiary grenades? IDK |
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Losing your team weapons is extremely punishing as Ost, because your infantry are all only 4 men so recreating a team weapon, even with a full health squad, is extremely risky.
Ost team weapons are better than their counterparts which helps make up for weak grenadiers. But, team weapons can be de crewed and then tuned against you, giving your strength to your opponent.
As an example, as Soviets capturing a MG42 or PaK is very good. However, as Ost, capturing a Maxim or Vickers is relatively worse.
Ost doesn’t get sand bags
Long range, Grens will lose to cons or IS behind sandbags, and Riflemen can usually charge and win versus grenadiers without green cover.
So, this forces Ost to play around natural cover, while Grens and IS can build sandbags
This forces Ost to play very defensive as:
You cannot afford to let your enemy capture your team weapons, as losing them to your enemy gives them strong infantry plus a strong team weapon, which then causes you to lose the team weapon edge you need to make up for your weaker infantry
Plus, If you loose your team weapons in a foreward position, you can’t recapture them if your squads have lost any models, and even at full health a one man squad retreating after recrewing is very vulnerable to being wiped.
Then consider light vehicles
The 222 scales very poorly compared to other light vehicles:
AEC: has tread shot, smoke and good penetration, plus 3 shots of HP
Stuart: has blinding shot and 3 shots of HP, crew for repairs and capping
AA half track: 3 shots of HP at vet3, crew for repairs and capping
T70: has recon mode for capping and vision, 3 shots HP
Luchs: 3 shots of HP
Puma: has critical shot and 50 range, plus smoke, plus 3 shots of HP
What does the 222 have? It’s shock value is great with an early timing, but after that it falls of sharply.
It could be good for vision, but it struggles to get the required veterancy as it can’t damage vehicles to get veterancy, and using it on the frontline after 1-2 minutes is too risky as it dies in 2 shots.
The same goes for the P4. It comes a bit earlier, but then scales way worse.
The OKW P4 has more armour and better scatter,
The T34 comes at the same time but the second one comes out sooner than a second P4 and then they can 2v1 your P4
The Sherman has smoke and HE rounds, and better moving accuracy. This means that if USF wins, he gets to turn on HE rounds and start wiping units. But if you win, you have the same old mediocre AI power.
Cromwell is worse, but the AEC can back it up pushing it in favour of Brits, and Brits can get the Churchill or Comet which beat a P4 and have AOE to kill infantry. This forces you to get a Panther to counter, but it doesn’t have main gun AOE..
As you can see from above, Ost has very tight windows for its “shock” units, the 222 and P4. They come before their counters, so they have to be weaker, but the opportunity gap is incredibly small before the allies get their better unit combos out, and then you lose the advantage
These are all very subtle weaknesses, and aren’t apparent at first glance. But they show themselves slowly over time, and lead to Ost being weaker than the rest of the factions, but only once you look past unit timings and unit comparisons.
One thing I will say, is that Panzergrenadiers are carrying Ost. The Shrecks are the best inf AT, and cover you weak vehicles, and they can beat other mainlines, making up for your weak infantry. But they bleed a lot of manpower and are fragile at 4 men. In the end however, they can’t make up for all the above weaknesses.
Below are some ideas for rectifying the above stated weaknesses.
Grens are never getting 5 men. But something needs to be done to make ost’s team weapons less risky to use. Maybe they could get reduced received accuracy when retreating, or maybe even OST’s team weapons could become 5 man. That would make them stand out against other team weapons again.
Also, maybe when The allies capture the HMG42, it is only 3 men strong? That would be a way to make losing your HMG les punishing.
As said before, the 222 can’t access its vision buffs because it struggles to get veterancy:
Maybe for the 222, give it a recon toggle at 0 vet and maybe a health buff at vet 2, or reduce its veterancy requirements.
Also, Maybe it could also get a blinding shot ability to let it help out against tanks.
The P4 is fine when it first comes out, but it starts to struggle later on, and losing one is very punishing due to its high cost:
Maybe for the P4, reducing the cost but making BP2 more expensive would not adjust the original timing, but would make the second one come earlier.
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