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Penals do not get any "extra" accuracy, their vet bonuses come at cost of having shitty RA and as result dying much faster under focused fire.
Also nobody fought or tested dual DP armed Penals because the only way to have DP have on them is Guards dropping one which is rare and Vickers having old Bren stat does not make Penals OP
Also section have Brens without any doctrine locks, we're talking about doctrine commitment here, one which excludes armor call-in or LMGGuards/Shocks.
Why exactly you're arguing against droppabe DPs when it was suggested by balance team themselves in first place? |
Almost entirely wrong or irrelevant. DP penals (not vickers) are roughly equivalent to double bren sections, sure. Vickers penals destroy both (again, assuming all squads vetted).
Besides the point, but if you're retreating squads at 2-3 models, there might be a l2p issue somewhere.
How is it irrelevant when it was entire point of my post
2XDP Penals are no more OP than sections or rifles with weapons upgrades, hence if DP's were dropped to them by truck or airdrop it wont magically make them any more powerful than UKF/USF mainlines with their weapons.
The point is that someone in this thread started claiming DP's are somehow broken when dropped to infantry when they are worst LMG in game.
Also M3 Vickers still having old Bren values might explain why people think droppable weapons are OP on Penals in first place. |
6 men + the to the last man passive (RA, cooldown and accuracy I think). The cost efficiency is a little all over the place, but as squads theyre in the same range.
Also, I looked at your previous statement about vickers vs DPs and its just false. Vickers are about halfway in between DPs and 1919s/lmg42s at max range.
Looked more at what you said, and also, 2x DPs arent worse than a single lmg42. Perhaps you meant that theyre worse than a single lmg42 + gren kar98, but even thats not true (at least, not at max range, which is the range you care about with lmgs).
Isnt M3 Vickers just reskinned Bren with same DPS curve, as far as I'm aware both weapons got nerfed unless droppable Vickers was left out for some reason.
Also Guards with 2xDP still deal less dps than Grens with LMG42 (thanks to PTRS)
As for Penals vet1 - it's 3% RA for dead model, by the time you'll get more than 10% bonus you already need to retreat. Besides point still stand about 2xBren IS and LMG/Bar rifles - they are better or at least equal to Penals with 2xDP, there is no reason to single out Penals considering their cost |
There's the fact they get 30% increase in accuracy twice which makes Penals so lethal with anything they pick up.
On the topic, we do have some ideas being formulated regarding some of the commanders. We might have details soon? I'd have to ask.
They also get a lot less RA compared to riflemen or sections so they evaporate when focus fired and bleed much more compared to them despite costing and reinforcing for similar price, so how is that OP compared to M1919/Bar rifles or double bren IS? |
It is broken because of team-play, by pushing penals etc. The funktion should be replaced by an upgrade for 1x light Vickers for Tommies like the LMG42 upgrade for Grens. The M3 should get maybe a little aura like OKW Opel Blitz.
The current truck is simply a fail-design.
Or what would you think about Volks/Obers with 2xLMG42 dropped by an Ostheer-Teammate?
Do you even know stats of dropped vickers? It's basically a DP for 60 munitions and 2x DP are worse than a single LMG42. Penals armed with them are no more OP than Guards with their 2xDP or rifles with m1919 |
He probably means drops for soviets, because they are irrelevant for USF.
It also creates synergy between factions and we all know that synergy = batshit op if opponent has it, but balance/underpowered when you have it, like donating shitload of fuel to OKW as ost.
That makes even less sense then. They are considering airdropped DPs, which is even more convinient
ZiS dropped DPs would additionally cost truck and popcap compared to just dropping them from air.
Plus USF and OKW paratropeer doctrines have some ways of reinforcing on field via beacons or skillplanes, while truck from campaign still an unused asset. |
Because it is broken and should be removed too.
Assault-Grens should spawn with smaller target-sice, now they get at Vet1 -10% received accuracy and with Vet2 -29% incoming accuracy. So why not split that and buff it a little bit?
Vet0: -5% received accuracy at AND -5% received accuracy
Vet1: -10% received accuracy, -25% sprint ability recharge time
Vet2: -25% cooldown, -30% incoming accuracy
Vet3: +40% accuracy, +25% range on Grenade Assault
M3 dropping Piats and Vickers is broken? Forward Assembly literally does exactly that on top of healing or FRP. Do you even play Brits? |
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M-42 and DShK in same commander is pointless, they are both are kinda bad anti-infantry weapons and bad anti-light vehicle weapons, having both in same doctrine is reduntant. Not even going to point out that currently even maxim is better than DShK as suppession/AI damage weapon
Having fuel drop in same doctrine as recon and strafes/bombs is pointless you can never have that many munitions to utilize all of that.
Airdropped DPs are "why?" tier, why not utilize ZiS truck to drop them and PTRS, like UKF Special Weapons truck does
Assault Guards would need same buffs Shocks got and at very least Sprint ability, they dont have Shocks armor or damage output by the time they close the gap they would already need to retreat otherwise
Also, would be good if they had cloak-less models so everyone could quickly recognize they are not normal Guards just by looking. |
I agree, there's only ever going to be 2-3 actually meta commanders per faction because people will gravitate to the stuff that fixes flaws in the faction. They will need to take a completely different approach to commanders with CoH3.
However, CoH2 is way too far gone to fix that now. Might as well get some cool new content and commanders to shake up the meta every so often and keep the game fresh.
Is "shake up meta" implies more Overwatch-tier circus? Anyone can clearly smell BS coming from those OKW commanders comparing it to other selected faction commanders |
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Soviet commander with FMR has Rapid Conscription but no PPSh in doc, which means basically one wasted slot and it has ML-20 aka Dive Bomb bait which is pointless as its on tons of commanders and nobody ever uses it for obvious reasons.
If Conscription is replaced by PPShs and howitzer is replaced by some kind of smoke artry to cover infantry advance or tank retreat it might become viable (it will look basically like that doctrine Smartie(sp?) suggested somewhere)
Airborne commander looks like pure fluff/filler commanders like Partysans and Tank Hunters. Assault Guards are sick lelic joke in their current state and airdropped DP-28 would probably only useful thing in the doctrine but they have to compete with strafes and recons for munitions so you probably end up just spamming DP's on conscripts and not using other air support abilities in first place. |
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