Lol wtf Luft is the strongest PE doc. |
Ok.
Each faction basically one doctrine that works in competitive or even-leveled play:
US - Inf
WM - Terror (well, ok, you might be able both others and it might work, just coz wm is op as it is)
Brits - Arty
PE - Luft
Oh and M18 > m10 unless you're in Elite Mod.
/thread |
Whats wrong with that dynamic, make moar friends like that!
On a more serious note though, just play auto, it works just fine. |
Last patch was double nerf for us early game - wm t1 buffs and rifle vet changes. Revert back either one. If not wm t1 - give rifles more vet as it was before with rax upgrades. I'd choose more rifle vet over lowered reinforce any day. |
Still not convinced which way the mod should go, but I'll try to restart discussion with a potential changelog for a new version.
Bug fixes for 2.3:
- Snipers no longer fire twice rapidly when reloading their weapon
- Casualties no longer detect camouflaged units
- Inspired Assault now works properly on MG42s and Mortars, and does not apply penalties to Paks or Nebels
Possible changes to add in 2.3:
- Reduced the supression of the mg42_vehicle weapon (Halftrack, Stug) by 50% (it still does double the supression and 20% more damage than the PIV mg42. Not nerfed enough?)
- Reduced Nebelwerfer movement speed from 2.75 to 2
- Removed the Puma's 5% chance to kill infantry targets at high health
Possible changes to remove in 2.3:
- Return WM T4 costs to vanilla
- Return FtFL to vanilla
- Return Inspired Assault to vanilla (outside above bugfix)
The reason the Puma is so inconsistent is because of its accuracy. 50%. You can run up a lot of hits in a row, or a lot of misses. If we really wanted to address it, we should consider increasing its accuracy but lowering its damage.
I'm trying to cut out some of the filler, changes that sound good but have very little impact. The Nebel change above might fall under that category, but it sounds really good on paper so it's worth a try.
I think the vehicle mg should be nerfed even more. E.g. same as the P4 one you mentioned. Other then that all changes seem right to the point. |
Yes that would be a buff to the MG of the Panzer IV and Panther.
Why?
Because the Stug and Stuh MG (which is MG42 Vehicle same as halftrack) deals
25% more damage and double suppression.
(you see the latter I nerfed a little in one of my lists.)
Additionally, Stug gets 1.15x health bonus and Stuh gets 0.85x received penetration.
Panther and Panzer IV get nothing at all. Just a crappier MG. People that go for tank veterancy with Tier 4 units are not being rewarded properly for their investment.
Ah, didn't know they were different bonuses. Yeah its good for t4 units but then we need to tweak stug/stuh bonuses. |
Kolaris I understand your point and agree about those changes, but I think we have more important balance issues to work on. Namely - wm t3, wm ht and tonns of OF stuff (if we get into that). KCH are supposed to give away lots of vet - just as its hard to kill them. Someone who goes for unvetted kch and complains about rifle vet - deserves it.
I'd like to focus more on t3 units, since I think each and every one needs small changes. Puma is a bit tricky since from what I've seen it can be a bit random with its damage. Sometimes one burst can headshot multiple rifles on by one, sometimes it does just a little health damage. Is there some crit modifyers for it? The nebel needs a movement speed nerf in my opinion, the damage and vet bonuses are all fine, but should be slower, for now with 2 vet3 nebels you can pretty much fire non stop and never get hit by arty by shift moving after fire. And the Stug... well there goes my personal least favorite unit in the whole damn game. The "go for stugs in any unclear situation" playstyle shouldn't work in my opinion. The way to fix it could be removing supression from tank gunners, or introducing some kind of "antispam" (if its possible for inf units maybe for tanks as well?), but either way something should be done coz its a very cheap, very spammable unit, and shouldn't be a solution against nearly every kind of play US can go. And before you talk about better m10s taking care of it - you introduce one schreck or even better a t2 backtech and no m10 train will accomplish anything. Look at the recent tourney final game 4. |
Wehr Tier 4
* Tank veterancy level 2:
- Panzer IV, Ostwind and Panther now get 0.9x reload
- MG42 TANK turret damage from 4 to 5
Am I correct to understand this as a tank veterancy buff? In such case it should be reverted and done in the other direction - the tank mg gunners should be nerfed. Particularly their suppression. |
Ht suppression is actually on my list since very long time xp
You don't think tier 1 is even now? I think the jeep buff and the riflemen reinforce costs balanced it out. But that's just my opinion ...
Future changes are actually easy to be made. The main question is if there is still enough interest in such mod.
About defensive lategame: I disagree, Flak 88 provides great cover for mechanized lategame play. + 2 types of Arty ...
I still consider heavy t1 to be much too effective personally, the rifle vet changes were a good idea but combined with the wm buff it was too much. Look at aljaz wm playstyle which is sitting in t1 for like half an hour straight to t4, it shouldn't even be possible in games against players of equal skill (not to take anything from aljaz who is a brilliant player).
I think there will be interest, it is just proportionate to the small community we have left... All I personlly can contribute is ideas for changes and games to test them. |
Its been infantry vs terror in 9 out of 10 games for years now.
Def is a gamble in the sence that if you don't win in the first 20 minutes you probably won't win at all since it offers nothing in late game. Blitz can be very powerful mid game (imba stuh duh) but is still less attractive in the long run than gren buff + a cheap submarine on wheels + off map arty of two kinds.
I disagree with Purli on uselessness of armor, its a very powerful late game doc, but requires a certain playstyle to go with it and flawless play to survive till the goodies. Air is totally usable and I personally regret I didn't go blatant sniper + recon in my fail us games, but ofc suffers from the lack of artillery, meaning you will get owned by nebels eventually if you don't win fast. Inf just safest as a whole, minespam and arty come in very handy in early-mid stages, OMCG is always a nice boost to swing the tide later on.
Doctrines aside and considering we are theorycrafting and still hoping for future changes for whatever the reason, I do believe wm t3 really needs to be looked at and tuned down. As well as some other minor issues like wm ht supression rate, t1 changes from last patch etc. |