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Thread: The State of Conscript Assault Package in the current game.8 Sep 2019, 00:29 AM Jump back to quoted post7 Sep 2019, 19:37 PMelchino7 It's not unfair, cause the cost of T1 for OH is 80/10. The whole reason OH early game was buffed is to account for having to spend mp and time to build their tech as opposed of how all new factions play (straight main line infantry and other units, no build time on tech). +60mp, Pio buffs and MG as T0. On the contrary, SU has been "balanced" by having to choose from: map control (conscripts) or strong expensive units which are outnumbered early on. They receive no compensation once WFA was introduced and changed the game dynamics. Because OKW lacked in 2 departments, snares + any reasonable mix of support weapons. Which only further cemented the whole match up against OKW as cheese (clowncar or maxim spam later replaced by Penals after 2nd rework and nerf of maxim spam). There's a reason why it has always been said that OH vs SU was "balanced". -T0: SU: CE 170 + Conscripts 240 + T2 (160) and you need to wait a second to get that +10mp (which you will wait by either lag and/or building in the boarder of the base). OKW: SP 300 + Volks 250 + 90 (at T0) +10 if we mirror SU situation. T+150mp: SU: you are still waiting for +110mp to get a Maxim. You wasted 20s building tech. Conscripts is alone on the field. OKW: both SP and Volk can defeat 1v1 a Conscript. You are already building a 2nd Volk. T+110mp: SU: You start building a maxim. T+140mp OKW: You are buidling a 3rd Volk. SU: maxim was built like 10s before this. So you know realise why you can't dismiss the cost of spending MP early on tech. You are not fighting on equal grounds, because factions have different initial mp cost, different starting unit, only 2 waste time building their tech and "CASUALLY" the one with the least resources is the one with the "OP" units. arguably 2 engineers with a penal + M3 will be superior to conscripts vs OST now post update... 2 engineers would be equivalent to a slightly superior cons squad while penals and m3s can deal the real damage... then transition to a conscript build in the mid-lategame when penals start to taper In: COH2 Balance
Thread: The State of Conscript Assault Package in the current game.7 Sep 2019, 15:01 PM Jump back to quoted post7 Sep 2019, 14:23 PMVipper And if you ask building more than one type of unit makes things more interesting. 2 crippled units in synergy cannot beat 2 strong units in synergy In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Soviet September patch discussion7 Sep 2019, 14:30 PM Jump back to quoted post7 Sep 2019, 14:30 PMVipper Does you response has anything to do with the post you have quoted? yes because conscripts still need buffs but the modteam doesnt buff them because of penals In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Soviet September patch discussion7 Sep 2019, 14:28 PM Jump back to quoted post7 Sep 2019, 14:27 PMVipper Actually Soviets should be a special snowflake and have one of the few units that their weapon upgrade take up no slots, because reasons. conscripts + T2 builds still remain completely unviable though... conscripts are only really viable when doing a penal transition build but never a T2 build... In: COH2 Balance
Thread: The State of Conscript Assault Package in the current game.7 Sep 2019, 13:54 PM Jump back to quoted post7 Sep 2019, 13:46 PMVipper Another philosophical question... Each other. A husband and wife are stronger than a man and woman and the enemy cant do the same? or are you seriously gonna argue that 4 cons and a maxim is somehow better than 4 grens and an mg42? In: COH2 Balance
Thread: The State of Conscript Assault Package in the current game.7 Sep 2019, 13:44 PM Jump back to quoted post7 Sep 2019, 13:38 PMVipper I have never heard any one from Relic wanting to design maxim as assault HMG. This is probably an urban myth. On the contrary : Weapon Teams Focus on improving early game flow and balance. Weapon teams should be support units rather than front line soldiers. The Maxim and MG42 had their weapon profiles adjusted slightly, resulting in some performance modifications. As a result of this change, the Maxim should suppression slightly faster than before. Their overall DPS remains relatively unchanged. The changes to weapon traverse make flanking a MG easier when using multiple squads. Simply when OKW where released people noticed that they lucked the proper tools to deal with HMGs and abuse it. Maxim HMG We felt the Maxim HMG was overperforming in the early game due to its fast set-up. We also made adjustments to its build time and cost so it takes longer to reach the field and so it doesnt replace mainline infantry. if maxims are supposed to be support and conscripts are meant to be support aswell... then what the hell are they supposed to be supporting? In: COH2 Balance
Thread: The State of Conscript Assault Package in the current game.7 Sep 2019, 13:15 PM Jump back to quoted post7 Sep 2019, 13:07 PMVipper If you can not see why 7 men conscripts from minute 2-3 would be broken I can not help you. Ask the MOD team. maybe in the presence of penals sure... but a T2 build melts pretty quickly once the STG volks start popping out... even LMG grens can kick T2 arse pretty hard as its simply outmatched by superior line infantry AND support teams Jump back to quoted post7 Sep 2019, 13:07 PMVipper As for St44 I have said it this many times one need to rethink/redesign it. almost all factions get early weapon upgrades though... but yes the STG needs to be less of a no brainer upgrade Jump back to quoted post7 Sep 2019, 13:07 PMVipper To improve the performance of Conscripts, while retaining their role as utility infantry that excel at defense and supporting other units, we have added an upgrade to help them scale into the late game. The extra man and reduced reinforce cost will allow them to more effectively trade against opposing infantry while the veterancy bonus will allow fresh Conscript squads to gain veterancy. in the absence of penals conscripts are quite literally the only infantry you get... it was originally intended for the maxim to be the assault mg with the conscripts as utility.. but people dont like this hence the original idea has to be scrapped for a more valuable mainline In: COH2 Balance
Thread: The State of Conscript Assault Package in the current game.7 Sep 2019, 12:53 PM Jump back to quoted post7 Sep 2019, 12:37 PMVipper For many reason including faction design. For instance MP-40 where CP 3 no one would ever use the ability because they would already have ST44. then why not make 7 man conscripts come at the same time as the STG44? theyre comparable upgrades but conscripts get horrible treatment from the balance team because of penals... >.> In: COH2 Balance
Thread: The State of Conscript Assault Package in the current game.7 Sep 2019, 12:30 PM Jump back to quoted post7 Sep 2019, 12:18 PMFreestyler1992 I think you fail to realize how good ppsh cons are. in what sense? volksgren MP-40s are better... In: COH2 Balance
Thread: The State of Conscript Assault Package in the current game.7 Sep 2019, 11:07 AM this is likely because T1 is soo strong and the utility of conscripts syncs well with the strength of T1... of course the balance team is ignoring how almost every soviet victory in the tourney involves a T1 build one way or another and refuses to think otherwise... In: COH2 Balance