Ok, so you just proved my point. Conscript oorah+molotov is an effective anti-MG tool (heavy emphasis on the oorah and less emphasis on the molotov). If only Volks could sprint...
hence the point being the problem may be an OKW thing as opposed to a ostheer soviet ukf or usf problem...
Giving OKW indirect fire that early would swing OKW into OP areas, because you have to consider that UKF and USF will be affected by such a change as well. Also, I don't think you want to have indirect fire that fast. When combined with OKW's punishing infantry (when played correctly), indirect fire that early will completely rid the Allies of pretty much any field presence.
i doubt it... mortars dont really help against anything except machineguns ever since the great mortar nerf... even then OKW is considered to be an underpowered faction... this change (along with a tech rework) may help OKW find its footing... but thats just my opinion
M5 AA halftrack can 1v1 the 222, shoot down planes, and suppress. It is also faster and more responsive the than the flamer 251.
the flamer 251 is slower but is capable of disloging almost any defensive position ost can muster... there is a reason why flamer 251 is meta while the M5 AA truck isnt that meta...
Yes, larger squad sizes IS automatically an advantage. More resistant to indirect fire, more resistant to (OKW) mines, and most importantly, able to easily steal and recrew team weapons. Why is Ostheer unable to recrew with 2 models and forced to recrew with 3/4 of their squads? Because their team weapons are extremely powerful, and it would be unfair to allow Ostheer infantry to keep decrewed team weapons on the field for that long. Not to mention that the Ostheer sniper is basically useless against Soviet infantry. Also, keep in mind that Conscript reinforcement cost is dirt cheap compared to Grenadiers, which have the highest reinforcement cost of all mainline infantry.
of the points you have made only 2 points really apply here... the first is mines because they damage 2 models max and the second is recrewing which requires 3 models... however but indirect fire damages units in an aoe soo larger squad sizes just means more damaged models... snipers dont really count when the OST sniper has higher rate of fire to balance out the squad sizes... and overall reinforcement costs per squad is even between grenadiers and conscripts... |
Irrelevant. Incendiary grenades are nowhere comparable to flamethrowers, which is the focus of my point.
id say oorah + molotov is a bit more relevant at disloging the mg42 than engie flamers but i digress...
Except we do unlock potent anti-MG options with the first truck. The Luchs and LeIG are fine. Your suggestion literally doesn't change anything because indirect fire is already unlocked with the first truck (if you go Battlegroup).
nah not the first HQ... i meant the first truck which means indirect is unlocked at the same time u get incendiary nades....
And this is just on an OKW perspective. How do you think Ostheer would feel if Soviets got equal weapon teams but superior light vehicles (T70 and M5 AA) AND larger squad sizes?
im proposing T-70 nerfs though... also the M5AA is strong but the OST flametruck is a bit more punishing than the m5 imo...
plus larger squad sizes isnt automatically an advantage... conscripts for example have much higher target size and lower DPS than grens... they will lose to grens at high medium to long range engagements... cons only beat them at short-low medium range engagements hence conscripts and grens are considered balanced |
OKW does not get flamethrowers without a doctrine.
they get the incediary nade which is outright superior to the shorter ranged/super long animation molotov...
OKW has NONE of the units you just pointed out.
OKW's units can not sprint.
OKW does not have the UC. Kubelwagen is nowhere near comparable.
OKW can not protect territory they have already taken with a 0-minute MG.
What is OKW's only option to deal with MGs in the early game?
That's right. Flank or avoid. And what happens when you get MG42-like spammable Maxims? You can neither flank or avoid it.
I don't think I need to explain further why giving Maxims Mg42 stats will never work. You can believe what you want to believe but that doesn't mean it's the best thing to do. I recommend you play other factions before assuming what can be done and what can't be done.
if this is the case then isnt the problem here not with the maxim with mg42 stats but rather OKW? all factions have solutions against MG42 spam... smoke for USF UC/vickers for UKF oorah for SOV... havent done OST vs OST but id wager that the ost sniper and the long ranged riflenade are half decent against MG42 spam... perhaps OKW could use some sort of stock indirect unlocked by the first truck? |
It doesn't matter if you're allied biased or axis biased, if you refuse to see things from the point of view of other factions you're all equally a part of the problem.
my point is that this thread proves that there is significant axis bias... hence balacing by popular opinion will clearly be skewed towards axis favor... in any case i think balancing must be done objectively with subjective input as a secondary in order to be free of biases... |
Do you not understand? MG42 is nowhere near as flankable as the Maxim. Since OKW has ZERO indirect fire in the early game, they will stand ZERO chance against MG42-like Maxims since it'll be practically impossible to flank them. Please go play some other factions before you make your argument.
then why is UKF absolutely fine against triple MG42s? why does the 4 conscript + engie flamer build work against MG42 spam? indirect fire isnt the only way one can counter machineguns... oorah + molotov/UC + vickers k or IS or outright vickers dueling/incendiary + storm flank is entirely capable against singleminded MG42 spam...
As for conscripts...they ARE the support infrastructure. Their versatile abilities enable them to do so, although I do agree that they are lacking in the early game. If you want to make Soviet weapon teams Ostheer-tier, you'd have to get rid of merge on the Conscripts at least.
now this should have been your argument all along... yes i agree merge is an extremely potent support tool... perhaps MG42 levels would be a bit too strong on its own... in any case the maxim still needs alot of help but in considering merge MG42 levels might be a bit too much... |
seems you have big problems playing soviets as soviets, while playing them like Ostheer. xDDD
what are you on about? SOV is playable albeit weak in the current meta... also playing them like ostheer? what are you on? playing SOV like ostheer will result into failure as they lack the support infrastructure of ostheer... going maxim is an absolute death sentence no matter what faction you face...
also the incendiary nade is outright superior to the molotov... there is no way you can claim the incendiary is worse when the molotov exists
lastly you barely play the soviets... you have no idea what the SOV meta is which makes you think the maxim is usable... it isnt |
If Maxim were to receive MG42 firing arc, DPS, and suppression, then all OKW mains might as well just delete the game. There will be literally no way to counter Maxim spam because OKW can't even get any sort of indirect fire out until about 5 minutes into the game, at which point the Soviet player can get like 3 Maxims and control the entire map. You really haven't thought this out, have you?
why? whats the difference between OST MG42 spam and a theoretical SOV MG42 spam? both are countered by the same strategy....
Conscripts in cover aren't as bad as you make them sound. They get the best sandbags in the game, why not put your Maxims behind them? I also should point out to you that Soviet players can merge Conscripts into other squads, something Tommies can't do, not to mention that literally any light vehicle will run straight over Tommies due to their lack of a snare. Double Bren Tommies come out late, around the same time 7-man Cons will come out.
conscripts are balanced when compared to grenadiers but lack the support infrastructure that makes OST a decent faction... which is kinda why id like units such as the maxim to not be wet noodles |
lol... worst grenade ingame should get worse? xD
molotov
Maxim is fine to fight OKW, what do you want more? Easy win units again?
but it isnt... the maxim isnt meta against OKW... in fact the maxim is terrible against OKW beyond low level play... the real meta against OKW is M3 + penal + double engie flamethrowers... |
I am aware the Maxim can't suppress 2 squads. However, we were talking about blobs (3+ squads), not properly microed groups of 2 squads.
then you agree that the maxim is even worse since MG34s and vickers can still stop 2 squads... the maxim atm doesnt stand a chance vs 2 squads at all...
Regarding the 5 men, you still can't give it MG42 stats because it'll be a clone of the MG42 with one extra man. I don't need to elaborate on how broken this is.
it wont be broken however... a 4 man teleporting machinegun would have comparable durability to a 5 man machinegun with deathloop... they are equal in all respects..
Furthermore, it seems from the theme of the Soviet faction that they really don't need a defensive machine gun. Conscripts can hold the line themselves with their sandbags,
the soviets are currently underperforming hard specifically because they cant hold the line till the lategame... theyre completely reliant on the T-70 or doctrinal SVTs to carry their midgame or else they get completely annihilated in the early-mid game
and in the late game, 7-man Conscripts in cover are near-impossible to dislodge.
so would double bren IS in sandbags but UKF doesnt suffer from utter uselessness during the first 20 minutes ehh? |
Then perhaps you should read couple of posts back, where this also is explained.
Weapon range is 80.
Ability range is 60.
Barrage is not auto-attack, therefore ability range applies.
not entirely sure of its ability range... will confirm with cheatmods later...
in any case i still think mortars are pretty terrible overall... ever since the great mortar nerf i find myself using mortars only for the sole purpose of smoke unless im using a pak howie or an LEIG... and flares for the soviet mortar... |