Oorah is for more than just closing in on Grenadiers, it allows Conscripts to avoid MG arcs, escape danger more easily, and (most pressingly) allows them to close in on vehicles for a snare. I'd argue that oorah more than makes up for the reduced range of Conscript snares.
agreed... oorah has huge utility purposes on top of simple mobility uses... but grenadiers as youve mentioned before also have the added benefit of a longer ranged snare and less risk due to long range specialization... overall i think the matchups for both the conscript and the grenadier are fairly equal... the only major advantage that conscripts get against grenadiers in a matchup is the matchup against machineguns where conscripts excel alot thanks to their mobility... but overall id still say grens and cons are fairly even out of the bag
Merging into Flamethrowers is an incredibly powerful tool, though. Their teamweapons (though often subpar, apart from the ZIS) being able to stay on the field more easily is rather strong, too. Merging into Guards is also very nice indeed, though of course they are a little squishier.
yes the flamethrower is really good ill give you that
yes keeping a teamweapon in the field is really important... but its also insignificant when you get an utter piece of crap teamweapon like the maxim... if had at least comparable suppression to a contemporary MG then this point at least begins to get relevant... other than that dont expect to see maxims in any half decent game unless the opponent is fooling around...
True to some degree, but It's difficult to look at raw teching costs and come to a genuinely perfect conclusion, due to differences between various armies' differences. I do think Soviet could do with a decrease in teching costs, but its not as easy to say "They should be the same as OST/USF/UKF", I don't think. A lot of balance decisions are difficult to make based merely on raw numbers, given that the way these numbers then interact with the game as a whole is very difficult to compute.
Also: I think Lelic probably don't want Soviet to not have to buy AT nades and Molotovs, due to the whole "Faction identity" thing.
not sure of the faction identity thing...cuz imo "flavor" isnt an excuse for a shitty fac... but do note that even miragefla has noted that soviet tech costs are insanely manpower intensive... if you do wish to give the soviets side techs then you most definitely need to reduce their insane manpower costs... |
Please don't discount the strength of Oorah, and especially not Merge when it comes to Conscript's power. Especially with the changes to Mobilise Reserves, and to the Soviet HT giving them on-field healing, Conscripts are looking rather nice now.
oorah is strong but id argue that it is so because conscripts lose long range fights to grenadiers... if conscripts didnt have oorah then they would lose hard to grenadiers simply because grens have long range DPS while conscripts would simply bleed on approach... plus they get a riflenade on top...
merge`s main use is the engie flamethrower and supporting team weapons... meanwhile of the soviet teamweapons the only exceptional one around here is the zis3 while the maxim is still hot crap...
As a moderator mentioned in another thread, incidentally, I do think the idea Soviet pay for things as "side-tech" is at least slightly misleading, it apparently is intended as a factional retardation to slow the arrival of later units, rather than being an "extra cost" on top of Conscripts.
if that were true then side costs + tech costs should be comparable to any other faction... but this isnt true... soviet teching alone already costs more than any other faction... sidetechs bump up those costs even higher...
I would prefer if they just went and gave Cons their tools through regular teching though, and increased the price of certain tiers, if this is indeed the intention. It would increase linearity, but would remove confusion.
as ive said... soviet teching is already stupidly expensive... its down there with OKW as the highest teching cost ingame... (okw`s costs more fuel but SOV teching is incredibly manpower intensive) |
Also, feel free to cross conscripts out of that list of yours, new changes fix everything for them now that they get an upgrade in actually reasonable time frame for reasonable price.
conscripts are basically grenadiers that have to pay extra for molotov and AT nade... the only point when conscripts really start to shine is at vet 3 + 7 man... though the new mobilize reserves are something i have yet to test out... |
7 men arrive way to early
no they dont... 7 man takes more fuel/more time than any other weapon upgrade for any mainline ingame bar none.... |
Lets stop playing gmaes here and you can answer a simply question:
In your opinion do you agree with the claim that T-34/76 is useless without ram.
the point of the reference is survivorship bias/selection bias
just that the T-34-76 in wc2019 may not have used ram every 1v1 tourney but that doesnt mean ram is not a crucial component to the viability of the T-34...
in a 1v1 the very existence of T-34s and ram combos already defer the construction of big heavy tanks like the KT JT ele (maybe the panther and brummbar) etc hence the meta being medium tank spam (since heavies are kinda expensive aswell)... therefore ram`s intended targets generally do not appear ram itself does not appear aswell... giving the illusion of ram being an underused ability...
play 2v2s 3v3s and 4v4s and you will see ram used almost every game where u see a panther guaranteed... and when mediums start facing the big heavy boi`s the T-34 struggles even harder if it doesnt get to use ram...
I suspect you mean 3vs3, 4vs4
I you opinion is it less cost efficient in those mods then the Cromwell, Sherman, PzIV?
the T-34 without ram loses to a shootout to a panzer 4 (both g and j) 3v2 and is significantly less efficient against infantry and with lses utility and anti tank than the sherman... |
It was used in 2 games in total of 48 out 35 T-34/76 units build and another 21 T-34/85.
The claim that T-34/76 is useless with ram at vet 1 is simply not supported by the stat from WC2019.
As for WC2020 the stat are not available but Soviet where picked is only an indication that they had trouble vs osstruppen and nothing more.
this image sums up the fallacy you are making here vipper
i hope you are familiar with it |
Not really. In the WC2019 out of 35 T-34/76 ram was used 5 times in 2 games.
and in wc2020 the soviets were barely used at all
ohh and by the way ram is also a huge scare factor against big scary axis tanks... since it essentially serves as a hard counter when facing the soviets... no way anybody`s gonna ram a panzer 4... |
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just revert the ram change already.... trying to nerf ram like this isnt gonna work at all unless the ram CONSISTENTLY applies engine damage/stun to its target... and even if it does then the vet 0 T-34 needs a performance buff to compensate for its subpar stats without ram
also the maxim hasnt been changed... its still utter shit in its current state... buff its suppression soo that it doesnt take FOUR seconds to suppress at least...
lastly the T-34 still comes later than any of its contemporary medium tanks due to excessive teching costs.... this makes no sense at all... |
T-34/76 was used both in WC2019 (35 being built being the most popular soviet medium tank) and WC2020 so I am not sure who considers a bad unit. On the other hand considering it a bad choice does really say much since T-34/86 is considered to be one of the most cost efficient mediums, 76mm Sherman was used even by USF and KV-1 as you say needs slight nerf.
ram is a huge factor to the cost efficiency of the T-34... removing ram has the potential to turn the T-34-76 bad as its base stats are simply subpar...
either revert the ram nerf or buff the base stats of the T-34-76 if you want to remove ram from the game as with the patch |
Penal Battalion
- Reinforce time from 5.4 to 4.5
- Removed PTRS Package
- AT Satchel now unlocked through Infantry Support Weapons.
- AT Satchel reworked to have less damage but more range. Should behave more like a standard snare.
- Mobilize Reserves now grants Penals: -2 reinforcement cost, +20% Veterancy gain, -5% Received Accuracy
i like the idea behind these changes but i think mobilize reserves should be renamed to "promotion to strelky" and grant -5% RA + 30% increased rate of fire |
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