Penals vs Riflemen
EHP
480 vs 412
DPS 10/20/35
26.6/18.7/10.8 vs 24.1/14.2/8.49.
I love how you just put units in a vacuum and call it a day. Per model, rifles are better + nades + weapon upgrades. Get a grip with reality please. |
Reducing the range of the ISU is a bad way to fix whatever the perceived issue is.
I suppose the issue is that, to counter ISU, axis team must go Elefant or Jagdtiger. But, reducing the HE range of the ISU is an awful way to go about fixing this issue because, as was explained earlier, ISU is very vulnerable to axis armor, especially the Panther, from all ranges.
If there is going to be an ISU range nerf then there ought to be some significant boost to its maneuverability and speed so it can effectively withdraw. Changing ISU like this is going to necessitate changes to the stats of other tanks, not just elefant and jagdtiger, because the threat of a P4/Panther push is going to be much more potent.
Theoretically, I'd love to see a coh that does not have crazy powerful individual things like ISU152, Elefant, Jagdtiger, Sturmtiger, etc., but focuses more on medium tanks and and infantry combat but that's for a different thread
Not really. The 60 range nerf is not as bad as it seems. And COH2 definitely needs such tanks. Adds much needed flavour. ISU needs rear armour nerf to 120 and HE range nerf to 60 or 65. Nothing else |
We're playing the same game, right?
I'm playing Metro Exodus, so no, but Thanks for asking.
But honestly, they are fine. They are doctrinal and quite strong, but nothing that can't be dealt with. There are other units that require looking at and fussies are not one of them. |
It is there to deal with the best infantry and withstand the best tank destroyers. The vet1 ability has a very long cooldown and newly increased munitions cost.
I have to admit I'm biased, as I bitterly lost three of them to Ram + IL-2 Bombing very recently, trying to counter a Soviet infantry blob. In hindsight I think I should have selected Panzer IVs and an Ostwind before the Soviet army reached critical mass.
Everyone is biased mate, nothing to it. It's just what people claim, that makes them moro*** next to biased.
On the topic of withstanding the best infantry. Allies don't have the best infantry and infantry isn't usually something you have to withstand unless they mass zooks or piats, at which point you go for a werfer or stuka or MG. And about the TDs, I mean, axis also have TDs. Some even that have heavy tank stats, and not to forget that the OKW P4 starts with 234 armour.
I mean, Brummbar is fine. Maybe a slight armour reduction so that once it reaches vet it's not impenetrable by anything below a Jackson AP/SU85/Firefly with it's 312 armour. With 800 HP, sturm can be a nightmare in teamgames in capable hands. |
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T34 is fine. For a 90 fuel unit, it's fine. I mean, I'd sacrifice a vet3 T34 for a tiger kill (or something heavier). It's MGs are good enough for a bleed. Main gun good enough vs infantry and lighter tanks. Maybe buff the target size a bit and be done with it. Or rework veterancy or give it some ability vet0 like capping.
T34 is more than fine |
AEC is worse in literally every way than the puma. I don't think the nerfs were not needed, but it'd be nice if it got a speed or acceleration buff to compensate, or at least got its smoke fixed. It also seems to miss a lot of shots, even while stationary, but I don't have accuracy numbers so I couldn't say for sure.
This is especially pertinent because brits have a lot less snares on the field on average than any other faction and have no other nondoctrinal light vehicles.
You can check everything here: https://coh2.serealia.ca/# |
Elefant is designed to counter Allies' TDs (SU85, M36, Firefly). How could it fulfil this role if it has same range as Allies' TDs?
400 frontal armour and high HP. Heck, I remember in one 3v3 on Redball it was impossible until my mate with katyushas came in and plenty of smoke to help me out.
Elefant + 2x brummbar + MG + some pios + grens and one JP4 from teammate. It was impossible for me to push.
Tried 3x Jackson -> nullified (4 shots I managed to put on the elefant, all 4 bounced)
Tried smoking -> Brummbar target ground
Didn't have any offmap (heavy cav commander).
I don't blame the units, I blame the map. Redball is a horrible horrible teamgame map that favours Heavy TDs, ISU152 and JP4s alongside heavy tanks since there is little to no flanking potential since it's practically just 3 narrow lanes.
ISU is getting nerfed rightfully. How to balance out the elefant in teamgames? I really don't know. Range, ROF, agility? Don't know |
ISU-152's ability to snipe infantry from behind a wall of AT I would say is more impactful as you stop all ability to capture territory and also can deny VPs for infantry daring to step on that. The JT and Elefant are more devastating to vehicles, but they can't lock out a VP or territory from infantry on their own and bleed the opponent of infantry.
And while I'm not responding too much, be assured we're keeping an eye on the posts passing through the threads.
On the other hand a wall of AT + ISU152 in 1v1 would be catastrophically non agile and prone to easy flanks since it would take a big chunk of population. In 2v2 (most maps favor laney-ness where such units excel), you're counting on your mate to patch some flanks. And generally, axis players should always seek to stuka or werfer the AT wall before pushing (same as how USF smokes in teamgames). I mean, the HE range is not a bad change. It's a thought out nerf. The Penal reworks are quasi-reworks at best. I don't know how one could use penals in anything past late game except for the nuke close range snare.
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Incorrect. I just tested it.
ISU 152 has 260-240-200 penetration on the AP rounds. So it will bounce on max range (which is the way ISU needs to be played because of it's agility) OKW P4 (234 armour, 85% chance of pen). It's on the level of SU76 mainly because it has a really slow rate of fire (9-11 sec) but more dmg and more penetration (SU76 does 120 per shot, while the tank standard is 160).
Still, with this nerf to ISU152, one no longer needs to change rear armour because the main use of ISU152, which is to snipe units is in range of JP4 and heavy tank destroyers. Even a panther can take it on with a bit of closing in (50 range vs 60 HE mode).
Elefant and Jagdtiger are the best anti tank units in the team games, 2v2+ they completely shut down any sort of tank play, especially if supported well, but they are not OP. With the exception of the nuke ability on Jagd, elefant is weak to infantry and can be flanked if out of position. |
Damage sponge is not taking damage if its not penetrated. Aswell as, its kinda strange to expect it to tank damage up the ass, considering you are not supposed to let enemies get to that to begin with.
It should be either armor or HP, not both, especially not rear armor one.
KV-1 as it is can give medium problems, even when flanked and having inferior main gun to churchill. Churchill not only has main gun of a premium medium, but also completly immune to medium flanking.
Considering that it comes on field when you already have Panthers and/or Stugs or JP4s, Churchill is a free vet grinder for those tanks. If you have a problem dealing with them.... not balance fault. Panther has armor, hp, AT gun and plenty of MGs next to the pintle, and you're complaining that a semi-stock (depends which spec. you get) damage sponge is too much? |
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