Also, how come stormtroopers don't have commando camo? I see no reason for them not too and it'd make them much more useful.
Isn't that what the preview patch notes say though? That they're being given camo AND the ability to move through cover while stealthed? Or did I dream that up? |
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There's a lot of solid info in the patch notes from the (relatively) recent Osttruppen change patches, but one thing I've never seen explained anywhere is how cover damage bonuses work.
Can Osttruppen and British infantry be standing on the same side of cover as the enemy and still get the damage bonus? Or do they have to be firing past the cover at the enemy for the bonus to apply, similar to the defensive bonus cover provides?
Also, is the bonus calculated on a per-model basis? Or does the entire squad get the bonus as long as it has the buff shield icon over it, even when several models are either in a different kind of cover or out of cover entirely?
And lastly, I heard recently in some thread that half-tracks provide cover to the troops inside -- do they literally provide a cover modifier or just prevent projectiles from hitting the troops inside? And if the former, do Osttruppen get their cover-based damage modifier while in a half track? And what about when inside unorthodox garrisons such as towers?
This is probably the only mechanic I still don't fully understand after five years, since I've not been a fan of Osttruppen until recently, so would appreciate any insight. |
Thread: OKW UP?8 Sep 2018, 16:06 PM
Not really sure what game you are playing but Volks are pretty good for their lower cost and cheap upgrades. Volks with STG's are far better than Allied Infantry at least until they get Bolster/Weapon Racks. Volks aren't supposed to be better than everything else in the game, that is what the Obersoldaten are for. They are very cost effective, have lots of bonuses that don't require side tech, and have good scaling. You can also lose them in larger numbers and not suffer as much manpower bleed as Allied factions, even if the Allies generally have more durable infantry squads.
This is a fallacy many fall for. I'm talking about purely Rank 0 Volksgrenadiers.
Units must be balanced not around their vet bonuses and not around their weapon upgrades but around their Vet 0, unupgraded, vanilla state.
That state is utterly unthreatening to anyone.
And shall I remind you of how weapon upgrades are supposed to be optional? How you're supposed to be able to invest munitions into something else, like mines, instead of upgrading weapons, and still stand a chance? Grenadiers can. Volksgrenadiers can't. |
Also, the mp40s on stormtroopers are for sure a lot better than all the other types. They supposedly are a bit better than commando stens 1 for one, which is very good. And again, they have camo.
I used them the other day and spawned them out of a building, hopped back in the building, and beat 2 rifle squads without BARs from about 10 meters with no grenades and no movement on either side. They aren't pio mp40s XD
Now if only Assault Grenadiers could trade in their MP40s for the better variety...
As for Stormtroopers, won't there also be a different "downside" to +40% accuracy? Isn't that degree of accuracy buff usually reserved only for rifles due to their low rate of fire? Won't +40% accuracy on SMGs make them literally instawipe a unit up close?
Or am I talking out of my arse? I don't remember the exact accuracy stats on SMGs vs rifles, just going off generic knowledge. |
Yeah 40% accuracy boost at vet2 is completely worthless and suicidal. Keep in mind that they have a 0.75 target size and camouflage.
The ONLY reason Panzergrenadiers have ANY chance of accomplishing anything is because of their continuous received accuracy reduction.
If Stormtroopers start out with lower received accuracy than Panzergrenadiers, then that's something I wasn't aware of, but if they start out the same (presumably, they use the same models), then lack of stacking RA reduction with every rank is going to make them suicidal.
Also, MP40s are still absurdly weak, but that issue is secondary to the extreme necessity of a four-man SMG squad being able to survive longer than three seconds in combat. |
Thread: OKW UP?8 Sep 2018, 03:14 AM
I've been saying it for ages, and I'll say it again: Volksgrenadiers have non-existent damage output.
They pose no threat to anyone, ever, especially at Rank 0 without STGs.
The Raketenwerfer being worthless is an issue, but I still hold the core problem with OKW is Volksgrenadier damage output.
A balanced unit is a unit that actually poses a serious threat to enemy units. Volksgrenadiers threaten no one, ever. |
ACHTUNG!
I just realized that the notes say nothing about changing veterancy bonuses.
If Stormtroopers are changed to MP40s but this remains the same...
...they're going to be completely worthless and suicidal, so need to give them Panzergrenadier veterancy bonuses with this change. |
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That looks horrible...
The current camo is Splittertarnmuster. It looks great and is historically accurate. Out of all the concerns regarding Grenadiers, their appearance is definitely not one of them for me. In fact, they're probably the best-looking baseline infantry in the game because of it. |
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Is that not smaller than usual?
It's really just an issue of Ostheer infantry relying entirely on insufficient received accuracy reduction, which is supposed to justify lower model count but doesn't, at all, given how instantly their models keel over despite it.
Does that qualify as a bug? Probably not. But as far as I know, no one's ever looked at how ineffective Ostheer units' received accuracy values are at keeping them alive, so it might at least be worth investigating for a potential future balance patch. |
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I mean, the Raketenwerfer literally doesn't penetrate UKF medium tanks.
So I guess cross your fingers and hope you get matched against OKW, if anyone still plays OKW... |
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