hector ofcourse its great stand still and used for suppressing everyone knows that. but being so close to a unit while moving should be able to do some damage. for example reversing while engine damaged. and troops are so close they are touching u... even tho ur quad is shooting it wont hurt them nearly no damage at all.... which it should not be that wat. think about luch or 222... allies troop cant close in cuz they will get raped being close even while the light vehicle is moving. u shouldnt be able to be 1 feet away from it and be safe is wat im trying to say. while moving and shooting from far is a different story but up close troops should take a decent amount of damage.. if ur going to argue about how its fine, first go try it then get back to me and tell me its fine
The luchs and the 222 also can't suppress units to stop them from closing in in the first place. If your half track is snared then either you:
Hit a mine
Got out flanked near a sight blocker and became snared
Both of which are l2p issues. Get sweepers for mines and cover your flanks so you don't get outflanked and snared. Mines snares are also only possible with schu mine 42s as Tellers will just destroy the halftrack. Also even if you're snared you can just have the quad go staionary and suppress the squad thats ontop of you. I don't know how fast it pins, but I'm willing to bet it's pretty fast if the squad is ontop of your halftrack. If you can't stop moving cause there's an AT gun inrange that is still a l2p issue since you drove your HT into AT gun range and snare range.
There are 36 maps in the 1v1 + 2v2 rotation. Out of those 36 maps I regard 6 maps as clearly Jagdtiger beneficial: Minsk, Rails and Metal, Kharkov, Crossing in the Woods, Rzhev and Across the Rhine. I´ve not enough knowledge about the custom maps to judge them. However 6 out of 36 is still not 90%.
The maps mentioned here are only ever played in the 2v2 form at high level. You will maybe see a JT in 1v1 at a high level in about 1 of every 2000 matches. Even then I doubt it.
The only way we can touch OKW in the patch is through their fausts. The only way we can touch Soviets in the patch is through the Maxims.
The results we have so far say that we need to tweak Soviet power with relation to OKW. Should we restore Maxim spam, or should we restore the viability of M3A1?
The scope makes no sense, and we feel that reintroducing faust timing is the least-frustrating way forward.
At the very least, new Soviets cannot be worse than pre-WBP Soviets due to a variety of reasons:
- Soviet vehicle nerfs
- OKW vehicle buffs
- Penal nerfs
- Guards nerfs
Thus, that early forced raketenwerfer will hurt that much less now.
I see the overall picture now. It's just a nerf in relation to soviets vs OKW. USF vehicles come out at about 5 mins earliest and brits don't usually go AEC anymore, if they did it's around 7-8 mins. Currently according to Siphon X Soviet winrate stands at 34% and other factions lay in the 50% range.
The hope is that the sheer fear of the enemy rushing a light vehicle will dissuade OKW from overinvesting into the kubel-heavy openings we are starting to see as a result of WBP. That will limit OKW's early-game territory gains and, you know, maybe Soviets can have a chance.
Grenadiers cannot go toe-to-toe with the vast majority of the enemy squads. Thus, you have to make a compromise with how many support weapons you field, and how many Grenadiers (and where you place them) to prevent yourself being overrun by light cars.
With current Volks, there's really no compromise. They're amazing for their cost, so why not spam them right off the bat? This is especially after early OKW game with:
- Sturmpioneer starting squad
- Kubelwagen armour vs small arms fire
- Sturmpioneer repair speed efficiency (which allows Kubelwagens to press on and bleed squads)
I understand that it will dissuade OKW players from going kubel spam into fussilier spam but you have to understand that for the players who actually just get 1 kubel and 3 volks or 4 volks open they have zero defense against a flame car rush. That more or less completely breaks the ability to go for mechanized becauase you want your fausts as fast as possible. Or you go for an earlier raketen and because you have 1 less fighting squad you'll generally lose map control. Why not just make the OKW faust more expensive when no truck has been built similar to the flaktracks smoke ability at vet 0 and vet 1?
Note that, unless we did something wrong, v1.3 is meant to be the final version of the mod. If you guys can get some games going let us know how the Maxim feels, etc.
We require timely feedback.
The thing is that early OKW faust was meant to come at the same time as the other light-vehicle changes that we wanted to introduce in WBP. With the early faust, OKW could feel confident spitting out Volksgrenadiers (without having to worry about pesky rakketens) rendering light vehicles (minus M20) completely useless vs OKW. This left the way wide-open for Kubelwagons.
I know that reverting the faust seems completely lame, since it makes MechHQ starts even less appealing than before. However that's the only thing we were allowed to touch from OKW (which, somehow, completely dodged infantry scaling changes in WBP, and then managed to get through GCS with the overwhelming majority of its cheese untouched). The choice was between making MechHQ less appealing, or keep light-vehicles completely unviable.
This change is meant to be interpreted side-by-side with the overall changes to Brits and, especially, Soviets.
Ok? but how is this different from Ostheer? M3 clown car rush doesn't work against Ostheer because they have the super early fausts. You don't see Ostheer getting their fausts nerfed behind their T2 building or battlephase 1. If it's because the raketen is on T0 and the pak40 is on t2 that's a rakaten issue or a pak40 issue. Is it because volks are generally more powerful than grens because of the extra man? Volks spam is one of the two only strategies you can go for as OKW which is why their fausts are so abundant. Ostheer have more options which is why this isn't an issue probably. they can get MGs, mortars, some grens, snipers, Ostruppen with doctrines. Saying that OKW fausts are to numerous early game is a poor way of saying their design sucks but we can't change it because of scope. If you want to do the munitions change to lower the usage of the faust fine but it probably won't have a large enough impact and that I agree with you on. But I still do not see a reason to allow flamecar rushes against OKW inorder to force out a raketen so OKW has 1 less fighting squad while the clown car can more or less avoid it.
The only reason why we touched Panzerfaust cost was because we weren't allowed to touch any of the other OP OKW abilities.
Panzerfaust cost will be restored when the OP abilities also enter scope; not before.
End of story.
Obviously people have been bashing you guys for this long before I got to it. Fair enough though, make the OP faction have a true weakness till you can balance the rest of it. Everyone just needs to deal with it.
So we're reverting OKW fausts back to pre March 28th patch unlock wise? After the truck has been set up? This is one of the problems why OKW was so weak to light vehicle rushes like M3 flamer clown car. I see no reason for this unless I'm misinterpreting the statement. It could be beginning to setup, but I'd need clarification.
On a side note, feels great when your original patch notes predictions come through over the course of the patch revisions. Comet now 18 and command panther mark target was still overpowered.
A few things stood out to me in this replay which seem to cause you some issues.
AT snares: When you have a vehicle of any kind you should try and avoid taking a snare to ensure your tank has its full maneuverability. You were either too slow to kite in time to avoid snares or you didn't notice the snare about to occur and took it. Unsure if this was due to micro over taxation or just felt it was unnecessary to dodge, regardless though you should always give your best effort to avoid them.
Light vehicle usage: Your light vehicle play was very passive for the aggressive choice of the units you selected. The M3 scout car is good against OKW as they lack the super early fausts of Ostheer. You had multiple opportunities to chase down kubels but I think you were afraid of fausts or a possible rakatten. That's alright, but if this is the case just screen with infantry to the best of your ability and try and snag kubels. Every kubel down is a squad lost on his end. T70 died because it took double snare and then you retreated to the right instead of down the mid which was weird. You had an SU-76 and mines and penals covering the mid so I don't understand why you retreated right. Led to luchs flanking and killing of the T70. 1st SU-76 was lost because you forgot about it being attacked by a puma. This again may have been micro taxation and will improve with more map awareness and gameplay time. 2nd SU-76 had a lot of its possible shock value mitigated because it took a snare right as it came out and it took almost 3 minutes to get it repaired because your engineers were capping. Capping is great, but if you're units effectivness is crippled you may want to consider repairing it then go back to capping.
Machine guns: Seemed to have difficulty flanking and forcing away his MG34. This was in part occassionally due to unit clumping and then also the lack of indirect. You could have gone HM-38 120mm mortar for the indirect role as you had guard motor or you could have utilized the SU-76 barrage earlier. You did use it eventually but at that point you already on the backfoot badly.
HM-38 also has smoke.
Other smaller things I noticed was when your T70 got flanked you were able to get a AT satchel on a luchs. That was really good hiding them behind the house, but you could've maybe killed it had you entered the house after and used the PTRS's to get the last remaining shots and used the vision for your SU-76 follow up.
Overall: You really did well at the beginning with micro and capping and aggressive decapping, but once the light vehicles roled out both you and your opponet just lost squad after squad. If you can really focus on keeping your units alive and retreating then you can turn the fact both of you kept losing squads to only he was losing squads. You can use the upper right hand unit icons to see unit details as well as the tactical map for additional details to aid with unit micro. I also recommend control groups if you don't already use them so you can select and issue orders faster. Just try and avoid AT snares to the best of your ability and try and avoid running head first into meat grinders. You kept leaving your base to run into 2 luchs and an MG. If you can't push through it you either need to go a different route or grab indirect. Going another route will allow you to make him move and fight pushing into you if he wants to cut you off.
If you have any questions, comments or concerns feel free to ask.
Thanks for all the advice Atomic, I feel all of it was very correct in its analysis. Especially the super late ambo. I think ultimately thats what sank my ship. I have pretty awful micro but I just keep playing figuring that is the only way it will get better. Is it kosher to post another replay review thread so soon after this one?
You may post as many replay review threads are you like and we'll review each of them.
Hi Soniichu, as a rule of the strategy desk every review must satisfy the poster and/or have a staff strategist review it. AtomicRockets has given you a review of your replay. If you are satisfied with his work please say so and we can mark this as a completed review. If you'd like an additional review from a strategist feel free to ask. Even if you say you are satisfied you're more than welcome to ask additional questions, just be sure to "reply" to someone so they get a notification of it so your question doesn't take longer than need be.
Also be sure to mention what faction you're playing as in your introduction to the thread if your steam name is different than your .org name to avoid any mixups.
United States
but I just keep playing figuring that is the only way it will get better. Is it kosher to post another replay review thread so soon after this one?
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Shadow Link
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