They are not receiving more utility, they would be retaining an originally intended one. The restriction was added later and becoming a good infiltration unit after reinforcement is a counter intuitive statement. They are excellent for one flank in perfect situations, but dropping even one model risks the entire unit. There is no grass is greener argument here, as its an ability they still poses that needs a current patch update. At such point though your opinion, I have mine but the balance team most importantly will do something with it to reach a solution.
Commandos are not part of the revamped commanders, there is no reason to a buff a unit out scope that is already useful. The focus should be in the commander being revamped and not solving every problem in the game. The previous revamp patch also lost focus of the commander being revamped and end up with mediocre results and a revamped commander that now has to be revamped again.
In.C are also a separate case from the current implementation of St.T since they do not spawn with rifles.
I have little to add and you clearly entitled to have a different opinion.
Was thinking more of Cromwell/Comet. Forgot about that thing. Still that is "only" problematic once and if the commander patch is released.
Lets hope that Relic will decide to have a better look at the unit before releasing the unit. The numbers I provided thou apply to live game also the problem simply is magnified in the Revamp patch ...
The original mirror then would have been giving storms anti cache. which doesn't bother me as its achieved by a different means, commandos having a demo makes sense as its a higher investment of MP for 3 men, so as they cant steal weapons they flank and cant fight unless in very favorable positions/cover it makes very good sense for them to retain the demo. Your suggestion of DOT and rifles and muni upgrade is essentially a direct mirror. Why may I ask are you bothered by them retaining anit cache capability.
Because it is based on the idea that the "grass is greener on the other side of the fence", which is actually a pretty bad concept, since the rest of the parameters are not the same.
In.C have enough DPS when they spawn to kill support weapons, and are an extremely useful unit once they reinforce. They are already superior to many infiltration units, and they simply do not need more utility.
If you ask me St.T should not even be the doctrine...
I wasnt trying to be offensive... i was asking if you were bitching about the valentine... anyways being a good crusher doesnt make it a good tank... and ukf sucks big time for me to play it without getting cancer
The unit got a 50% more AOE, cp lower by 1, pop down by 67%, more sight while being able to move, lower XP value by 56% and barrage from vet 0. It needs to looked at all vet levels or it can easily prove problematic. A unit does not need to good to be cheesy.
Commandos fit in the role of back line harassers, they have not lost the ability it was changed due to a bad meta. The change takes little effort to revert. Making them 5 men with rifles and DOT is just more mirroring. I will be interested to see what the team comes up with as they've mentioned looking at it which is great news for a 370 MP unit with a gimped ability and squad count.
Yet you are the one asking for commandos to mirror St.T and be able to destroy cashes exactly because St.T can.
Here is you original post exactly asking to mirror St.T anti cashes capability.
Worth pointing out the the balance team and Andy_RE that the British infiltration commandos still have a leftover from old stealth demos of doom. they cannot deny caches due to being restricted from planting Demos inside of cap circles. With the current changes to storms on the way (anti Cache incendiary) id think it important to ensure they also get a fix to bring back their job of harassing the back lines, seeing as they are also spawning at a reduced squad count despite being more expensive id think its a small ask as they will have time to plant a demo to deny a cache, get off a quick flank and need to retreat to gain their full squad size.
M10 and othe UKF lost it's crushing capabilities. IIRC it should be equal to P4
That is inaccurate "Valentine" still has a rotation of 38 which was the problematic value with the M10. Things get even worse since the unit goes up to 8.4 speed, 45.6 rotation, target size 16.2 with veterancy and that is without even using war speed, while it can call in barrages while it is roaming around enemy units.
You are missing the point here, The commandos demo was on them from the get go and changed due to a meta at that time. That meta has been removed due to demo changes. So restricting the Demo from being planted in the cap circle is no longer required. If they had that from the get go as an infiltration unit, their job was to take out caches and flank. So as said before, pretty fair comment to say it should get the restriction removed. they spawn for 370 at 3 men, so they cannot steal team weapons they flank so they should be excellent harassers and that includes caches. If anything with no encirclement to follow up don't really see an issue with that.
Actually I am not missing the point, just because a unit could do something at some point does not mean that is should still be able to do it, units should have a role that fits them and fits their faction and the tools to fulfill it. Currently In.C have little reason to have an anti cache role, St.T actually have a reason for that capability.
If your approach is to make In.C to behave like St.T then you should be suggesting that the spawn 5 men with rifles and have a DOT grenade.
Well Commandos had the demo already just had it changed due to the times meta. So if anything storms getting anti cache was mirroring them to begin with. For 370 mp and spawning at 3 man they should be able to do their original ability since demos are no longer in meta or even functioning on the same mechanics. Simplest fix is allowing them to do what they did before.
Actually no, Storm troopers (ST.T) get the anti caches because it increases the synergy with "close the pocket" ability.
If you want to compare infiltration Commandos (IC) with St.T you will see that there a number of difference since the spawn with K98s and not smgs.
St.T not only lack as a infiltration unit they also overlap with camo PG that have camo with first strike and can sprint.
Urban defense units balance and abilities that where removed.
The abilities removed from the commander are Incendiary Barrage, Armored Vehicle detection. Since these abilities where in the commander one could claim that they are part of scope and try to Fix them. Incendiary is a rather good spot but Armored Vehicle detection could use a redesign and then become available to more commanders. Some suggestions for those abilities (and other) can be found here: https://www.coh2.org/topic/81491/suggestions-for-commanders-revamp.
Shock troops
Although shock troops are CQC unit they do not necessarily fit the Urban theme since they are not particularly good vs garrison. In addition the performance might be prove problematic with forward reinforce, healing and aura especially if one uses merge to reduce bleed further.
Shock troops are also one of the most common ability available to 6 commander and making available to one more commander would mean than 1/3 of soviet commander have them.
Imo the increasing DPS to make unit more attractive is a rather sloppy and ultimately a bad solution. High lethality means that fights last less and there is less room for tactical play since other random factor like being caught out of position have more impact.
In the specific case increasing mid DPS is bad for a number of additional reasons.
Weapon profiles and relative positioning was one of the best improvements of this game and the change break both ideas. If SMGs are to be good at mid range that should apply to all of them and not some of them, but that would make assault rifles even less viable than they currently are. Unit with assault rifles are going to have trouble fighting Shock troops since the only good range for them would be long where these weapon are bad.
About the "Thompson" solution.
Comments:
If Shock troops (ST) need better mid DPS and that is a big if, it would a far better solution to give them 4 ppsh +2 SVT, with PPsh being transferable resulting in ST losing their mid DPS after losing 2 models. That would force the unit to close distance with enemy or disengage instead of being able to fight out it in mid to close range against most axis infantry.
But in my opinion the problem with ST (and other sgms units) has more to do with the bleed and not the actually DPS. So a solution should focus on reducing the bleed and not increasing DPS. Oddly when the Wer officer was faced with the same problem the solution was an ability that reduces bleed and the result are quite good from my experience at least. Adding an ability similar to officer would help balance the unit allot more than an increasing the DPS.
Alternately one could make the "armor" a squad ability thus available to conscripts merged into Shock thus allowing players to greatly reduce the bleeding effect. That would the bonus affect of weaker team weapon maned by shock troops.
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