"Osttruppen
We find that the early game of the Osttruppen doctrine is generally too overbearing for most players, especially in light of the other changes to the doctrine. To reduce this early game pressure and scaling of Osttruppen squads with picked up weapons, we are implementing the following changes:
Max slots limited to 1
Cooldown between successive Osttruppen squads increased from 12 to 35"
I hate this change so much primarily due to the reasoning behind it.
Second, tripling the cooldown is rather harsh and honestly makes getting ostruppen pointless in my opinion, the whole point of the doctrine was to mass produce them, but they fall off very quickly once mainline infantry from the enemy team has come out.
Most of the time people struggle with ostruppen because they're caught by surprise by the doctrine being picked despite seeing it in the load out and forget how fast they can cap the map if you neglect them.
Ostruppen doctrine was already extremely strong in the early game. Thus, for every early-game affecting buff, there needs to be something else removed.
From the patch, the ostruppen doctrine has received the following (in order of importance):
- The ability to skip T1 and rush T2 vehicles directly without giving up faust
- Green cover and wire to all troops
- LMG42 upgrade for Ostruppen to catch up in the lategame
- A usable artillery officer
The recharge time "nerf" in fact has no effect on real build orders, due to the ability to meld the initial MG in the build order. Therefore, we'll probably revert the recharge time nerf and will have to retort with an initial delay nerf.
I think it could be interesting. What I don't like is the slot limitation, especially given the changes to dropped weapons for Ostruppen there's really no need to punish them so hard.
Ostruppen now already get a guaranteed slot item (LMG42 upgrade); previously they had none. Since we don't have the time to evaluate all possible interactions with picked up slot items, it seemed fair to restrict Ostruppen in that regard.
Absolutely kv1 is decent and rules over medium with his armor + call in.
The guy before you asked about DBP-version KV-1 and your reply is about live-version KV-1?
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Have you looked at the canister shot? It does feel a bit too strong to me.
If you pick Recon, you probably don't have any munitions for anything else, including Bars. The Greyhound is supposed to be Recon Doctrine's end-game, and it should have a role at minute 40 when the Pak-wall is complete. Otherwise, people will just never pick recon after the novelty factor has worn off. Doctrines (just like factions) should simply not become obsolete past a certain time in the game.
If the Greyhound is overperforming for its timing, we we'll probably push its CP requirements to 6, 7, 8; however much it takes. Recon has no Priest, or Calliope or MHT or Pershing or M10 call-ins to offer.
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I really like the commander so far, but to me it seems that the recon part got a bit lost with the loss of the greyhound vet 3 sight bonus and the replacement of the recon package (which admittedly never worked right).
The recon element is still strong in the commander on the Pathfinder call-in, and also on the raid-tactics ability. The greyhound also still has amazing sight. It just no longer gets broken pre-nerf 222-scope sight at Vet3; and that's it.
The lmg upgrade has always been a no brainer. I'd find it interesting to differentiate recon paras more from their airborne equivalent by getting rid of the double mg upgrade and offering something like a recon package similar to the g43 upgrade for panzerfussiliers. The upgrade would provide them with a good buff to sightrange and some accuracy and/or rate of fire bonuses to their carbines (since there is not really a replacement weapon that could be used like in the case of pf's g43s). It could also add 1 sniper rifle to the squad. If it feels too weak there could be an ability similar to tactical movement that allows them to dish out a bit more damage temporarily. One or even both weapon slots would have to be locked to avoid double bar squads.
It would be great to have a carbine squad that can be used tactically instead of another lmg squad on an a-move mission.
I somehow feel that IR Pathfinders already fulfill that niche. Plus, we really don't have the time to experiment with newly introduced weapons etc.
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Yeah, exactly. The M3 is just a pointless added step in getting assault engineers. Would be way better to just have them ready to call in from the start. Would also mean you could mix up the strategy early game.
I think the balance team may be over-estimating the M3's usefulness.
It might also be that you are overestimating USF core-faction mobility post FRP-nerfs.
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I don't see something fundamentally wrong with a doctrine having access to a lot of call-in units as long as:
- it doesn't force you to use all of them (i.e., leaves it up to you to decide which tools are right for which occasion)
- the doctrine doesn't provide you with an easy-mode cookie-cutter buildorder you can use to stranglehold your opponent
The first one means that a doctrine has sufficiently enough depth to allow you to use it in multiple ways (as opposed to, say, Lightning War). The second objective means that players that have to counter said doctrine won't be hating themselves if they have to play against it every single time (as opposed to live-version Penal-Lend-lease or Mechanised Assault of yesteryear).
Having played the doctrine a lot more, the weakest link appears to be the M3-AssEng bundle, in that it forces you to have both, when you only want one of them.
Perhaps the best way to resolve this one is make M3 appear empty, and give the M3 an ability to call-in Assault Engineers at full price if you want to have an AssEng (or if you want to buy replacements).
That's because for most of the maps you would really want to use M3 halftracks (i.e., open maps) you don't really need AssEng, and for the kind of maps you want to use AssEng, you really don't want duplicate M3's all the damn time.
As for the M21 MHT I would still build at least 1 of them; especially vs campy players, even if autoattack was completely removed. This is due to the sheer utility that a separate cooldown on smoke barrage gives you, which allows you to double up with White Phosphorus shells or a normal barrage.
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Due to WFA tech structure, Volks & upgrades have to hold out against each of the following potential threats (both individually and as a combination of said threats):
- Penals, with de-facto mid-long-range good performance
- Tommies, with de-facto long-range performance
- Tommies & Brens
- Riflemen
- Riflemen & Bars
- Riflemen & LMG
- Conscripts
- Conscripts & PPSh
So, IMO, the only two upgrades that would work for that would be either:
- An LMG42 upgrade; in that case we also give OKW access to T0 weapons and effectively remove them from the game, because now they've become Ostheer
- The weird STG weapon curve they have which gives them certain ranges to perform vs the forementioned units for each matchup
I can't think of any curve that will work vs each of the forementioned threats, and I can't think of any combination of upgrades that would help Volks to fight.
If you think that forcing Volks to pick mp40 alone will solve anything, feel free to give it a whirl in DBP trying the firestorm doctrine. You can maybe use up to 1 squad of Volks max tactically, but upgrading all of your squads with mp40, or letting the rest of the squads unupgraded is suicide.
Sure, we could tweak the curves a bit if necessary, e.g., cost, to prevent snowballing, and fire-on-the-move performance to prevent blob-ability. However, volks need to have a role in the late-game which is ideally complementary to Obersoldaten, without turning OKW into Ostheer v2.0.
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Intent of the changes
Recon doctrine is a light-armor doctrine that gives no access to the mobile artillery options that other commanders have. Since it does not cover USF's main weaknesses directly, the new commander has been redesigned to (hopefully) address those weaknesses indirectly.
In live version, the commander offers a lot of (weak) abilities too early, while offering mundane abilities too late (e.g., paradrop). We have sanitized the arrival time of Commander abilities, while also repurposing several of its abilities for the late-game
Greyhound
This unit is meant to anchor the entire doctrine together. Rather than being a run-of-the-mill rushed light vehicle, the Greyhound is repurposed to allow for sustained pressure from the moment it is on the field, until the end-of the game.
The unit will feel like a pre-nerf T-70 that comes late, in order to ensure that all factions have sufficient tools to survive contact with it when it arrives.
Pathfinders
The while Paratrooper-beacon synergy just doesn't work when the unit that is supposed to plant the beacon has such a niche role otherwise. Now, Pathfinders are meaner than ever, and fully combat-capable.
Support Paratrooper Drop
To allow for greater flexibility, the ability now drops one paratrooper squad and one AT gun. The paradrop might be too cheap. However, we will have to evaluate given the other restrictions that the commander imposes on the player.
Swapping out thompsons for bazookas was done partly for flavour and partly from preventing Recon doctrine from being a better Airborne doctrine.
Speaking of which, you might want to re-evaluate your perceptions about how powerful you consider the Airborne P-47 loiter to be, after the changes.
Raid Tactics
This is supposed to allow infantry to scout for your late-game tanks in order to get juicy hits in with your Jackson, etc. This helps covers a key USF weakness in lacking decent vision-giving squads in the late-game.
We will probably change the bonus from multiplicative to additive, to prevent Pathfinders from becoming too insane.
Cluster Bombs
We're considering whether to make this a mine-laying drop or keep it as a detonate-on-impact drop. The current version is detonate-on-impact due to time constraints when implementing the rest of the commander revamp changes.
One concern about mine-laying butterfly bombs is the potential for laying these ones is wiping retreating squads. Since it would be completely immersion-breaking to also paradrop warning signs from the air, any suggestions are welcome (e.g., allow only over friendly territory).
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Intent of the changes
The intent of the changes was to make the doctrine feel like a mechanized vehicle-heavy doctrine. Different vehicles at different phases in the game can be used to anchor your army around. Hopefully, the addition of the mortarHT and M3 changes will also help to keep the army mobile at all times.
M3 Halftrack
The intent of M3 changes is to allow the M3 to supplant the Ambluance in a more aggressive role. Whereas the Ambulance heals slowly but in an aura, Medcrates heal as fast as HQ/Bunker medics, which means that individual squads will be back in action sooner.
That, combined with the high mobility and high durability of the M3 HT will hopefully allow players to play more aggressively.
M21 mortar halftrack
The changes will allow the M21 half-track to integrate more seamlessly with USF builds, and also allow it to launch smoke and support barrages non-stop.
Of notable mention is that the M21 mortar halftrack still uses the pre-nerf USF 81mm mortar. Thus, we'll have to possibly clip its autoattack and, potentially, its HE.
WC-51 dodge
WC-51 dodge had no role in the battlefield except for an expensive kubel-hunter that withdraws from the battlefield once the job is done. With the removal of Withdraw and Refit and changes to the Kubel, the unit needed a redefined role.
Early game it is meant to act as a transport unit. Later on, it can transition to a fire-support harassment role (with a very powerful MG). Later in the game, the unit transitions to a cheap scout and forward-observer role with powerful support abilities.
Unfortunately, due to a bug, the artillery strike will not always trigger.
Raid tactics
The intent of this ability is to tie the entire doctrine together. The high-abundance of light-vehicles can be used to gobble up territory, and infantry can be used to take the lead and provide vision for a late-army composition later in the game.
76mm Sherman
This is mostly for flavor. This one allows USF to summon AT-oriented shermans that act as an in-between for 75mm Shermans and Jacksons.
Bulldozer upgrade
This upgrade allows Shermans to survive double-pak/rak walls and give the doctrine a lategame meatshield unit.
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Intent of the changes
The intent of the changes in the Firestorm doctrine was to create the opportunity for combined arms, where there was none. Instead of stacking the odds of the commander on the hetzer and the flamethrower, we have added smoke options and a mobile reinforcement option.
Ideally the set of changes will allow the Commander to be viable in open maps, while not being overwhelming in urban maps.
Volksgrenadier MP40 upgrade
The intent of this change is to allow players to designate support squads that will help a player advance their squads. Volksgrenadiers trade their powerful MP44 upgrade in order to gain smoke and a normal grenade.
Opel Blitz truck
The intent of the opel blitz truck is to allow players to have a mobile reinforcement option, which OKW normally lacks. This will hopefully favour both MedHQ and MechHQ openings, and it will allow the doctrine to press its aggressive playstyle.
Hetzer
The intent of the changes it to allow the unit to displace Paks, rather than become hardcountered by them due to its lack of turret. We will continue to monitor how the hetzer performs against retreating squads, since it's not our intent for a unit that cheap to be able to perform at such capacity.
The role of the Hetzer in the OKW arsenal is to have a reasonably lethal unit that outperforms the P4 in terms of AI, but is also more durable than the Luchs.
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Intent of the changes
The intent of the changes in the Luftwaffe doctrine was to make the doctrine less about spawning fallschirmjager from everywhere, and allow the rest of the army to keep up with them.
The commander had enough interesting abilities to come with it that were unique but simply not viable. Therefore, we went for a conservative approach to the commander.
Smoke Recon Assault
OKW lacks accessible smoke. Thus, we feel that by adding smoke dispensers to weaker commanders it will incentivize people to use them. The ability is purposely undercost (35MU for smoke & recon) for that purpose.
Fallschirmjagers
We have weakened the infiltration aspect of the unit to bring it on par with other infiltration squads. Once we have evaluated the performance of the unit properly, without the damage an instant infiltration spawn causes we could reward the unit with additional combat veterancy and/or reduce its call-in price.
Airborne Assault
The live-version of the ability was simply another "spawn fallschirmjager squad" ability. To give the doctrine more punch, the ability now also doubles as an AT strafe.
Flak Emplacements
They just sucked. Period
Valiant Assault
We hope that by increasing the cost-efficiency of the ability it will finally become useful. Nevertheless, this still feels like the weakest link in the doctrine. Ideas about how to enhance this ability (or replace it) are welcome!
An idea could be to move Valiant Assault to each OKW unit, sort of how OST sprint does it, to allow the players to summon it at will.
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