Happened to me too! I got all my vehicles wrecked by a SINGLE panther, then i enraged, threw my pc by the window, cryed, rolled on the floor, called my mommy and raise a powerless fist to the avenging skies cursing the injustice.
Of course, all of that happened because of balance! Certenly not because i got flancked, forgot to put mines, showed my vehicle's ass and offered my infantery to the tires of the panthers.
I began to believe this forum is made alive only by the balance section.
Like the dark magic animating a corpse for the necromancer or the stiches on a teddybear.
FRP- Why should I believe you when video/live game/replay/my games vs OKW show me the opposite?
Volks- RM shock troops? show us how you do, as far as I know RM lose vs anything considered as shock troop in a close quarter combat. They are versatile like volks but still I don't know where you want to go with this comparison, are you or not denying volks being good versatile mainline unit? If yes explain, and telling me "because RM are versatile isn't really an answer, both are. No then you agree with me and same here I don't understand your comparison with RMs. Kubel after 5 minutes? You already capped half of the map before 5 minutes, more than enough to pay the kubel, past 5 minutes every minute is an extra bonus for you.
Why are you trying to suggest that I'm always losing vs KT and try to patronize me? Don't you have more intelligent comments to propose? Do I ask your skill level to respond to me?
As I said before, you can build your HQs in your base sector and they'll be safe as any other faction ones. you decide to not, its a strategic decision I agree on but I disagree that this decision giving you a good advantage on the battlefield early and midgame let you go as if nothing happened if you lose your HQ when the KT is about to come.
I do not overestimate the KT, the KT is the best stock unit in-game or you can prove I'm wrong, in term of generalist tank (AI-AT), it is only behind the Tiger Ace which is doctrinal and somewhat equal to the IS-2 (doctrinal as well) depending how you want to read their stats. So no, I do not overestimate it, I put it at his place, neither higher nor below.
Sorry if you fell suggested to be patronized or diminished, was not the case
Let's reconsider all the argumentation from the begining.
From what you wrote i had the feeling that being able to build a KT in any normal game is a problem (which is what led me to understand that you have a problem dealing with a KT)
From my point of view, you are already suffering enough of the loss a truck ( whole tier unit denying) to be punished even more with beeing denied your T5 unit.
Plus dealing with a KT is not a problem from my POV, given you have not been outplayed, you have the right tools to do it in any game. And i feel this is not a out of jail card at all. More like an end game unit, after all he just paid 700 MP +310 fuel to get one. Count what you have with that.
1- FRP is an advantage in 1vs1, otherwise why 99% of the time players are building it outside of their base? You are mistaking FRP and healingbase. Indeed, most people build the healingbase outside the base, but almost none buy the expensive 300MP upgrade that allows you to get a FRP in 1v1.
2- Volks is a highly versatile mainline unit, are you denying it or not? Now, tell me which other faction can field from T0 building a versatile mainline infantry, a shock troop and a rapid light armored capping unit. Your comparison with RMs is irrelevant in this regard. I am afraid the comparaison with Riflemens is more valid than ever here a they both act as multipurpose infantery and shockunit. You are also overestimating the utility of the kubel after the 5th minute of the game.
3- KT is a call-in stock unit and have absolutely nothing to do with doctrinal call-in which require a strategical decision. I can hear that. Everything about KT is absence of strategic decision and counterplay, this is the aim of this topic. Lets say that by "counterplay" you wanted to talk about denying the opponent to get a KT. Why would the KT the only unit in the game that can be denied to get? You cannot prevent a sov to get any of is units nor a USA. If by counterplay you mean KT = Gamelost i can point some very well written guides on this forum to help you to deal with a heavy vehicle.
4- Destroying a HQ is only relevant if the KT isn't popping out couple of minutes later. i always find it relevant when someone destroy a tech building. try to loose your US base, not funny.
5- Like anybody can field a Super Heavy after building his 3 tiers? UKF are considered to be able to
6- What strategic missplay is the origin of denying KT arrival? none, there are no strategic missplay to not be able to deny the arrival of something ineluctable. Strategic missplay would be to not be able to destroy OKW HQs to delay or deny its arrival. My bad, by strategic missplay meant "not preparing for the arrival of the obvious" You cannot dictate the pace of the game every time, in that case, not adapting to the ennemy plan is the missplay and you are mistaking your role. Always remember the famous article "Who's the beatdown" So I can deny you to build panthers but I can't deny you to build a KT.Don't you see the issue here? Nope, can you develop please?
7- Eco KT is a strategy with no counterplay other than rolling over your opponent to force him to surrender. Should we also mention that OKW has per design an easy tool to occupy and deny a large portion of map and so denying 1vp/fuel named PanzerHQ making it easier to stay on the game. Nope, the counterplay to the KT is to destroy the said KT, bring ATguns, field mines, equip ATweapons, build Jacksons. You can roll on your opponent if you wish but it is the counterplay to anything
8- You can't compare a stock unit with a doctrinal one, even more when the stock one is the best in game. Stock units and doctrinal ones are in the same battlefield, they are comparable in any way possible. You are again overestimating the KT, some would argue that an IS2 is of much better value, beeing cheaper and packing roughly the same firepower and a much better speed, the same goes for a pair of comets.
There is many thing I find dumb playing against OKW and watching games around its matchup. But the one over the top is the faculty OKW has to field a KingTiger even if you destroy one of their HQ. There is something called strategy and tactical play being milestones of this game and this feature is clearly going against them.
In a 1vs1 perspective, OKW has a huge advantage with the capability to field after couple of minutes a FRP healing troops where the player wants. I could mention the dump idea of letting the FRP and healing abilities work same if you capture the territory where it sit but I'll leave this unrewarding tactical mechanism going also against those gameplay milestones away. The advantage of a FRP in 1v1 perspective is higly debatable, read undesired.
Many time OKW sit in a good early advantage vs USF/Sov and Brit faction, it is the way the faction is designed, best starting unit associated with best capping unit and supported by best versatile mainline infantry. Some people here would mock someone who mainly play USF complaining about the versatility of the mainline infantery of OKW. To be honest, if you watch the game as a whole, youll easily notice that every mainline infantery has the same purpose and versatiity.
This early advantage lead OKW to easily build-up those 3 HQ required to unlock the KT. the only stop left from there is the time to get the fuel required to call it in the battlefield.
So every time you play vs OKW, you are on a timer until the best stock unit ingame hits the field. And there is nothing you can do about it. One could argue that this is the case for every single heavy in the game. Other factions doesn't even need to tech at all to get one (xcept britz).
-You can't really deny OKW the capability to build HQ, you can only destroy it when its completed
-Destroying one HQ doesn't change anything, KT will be available when OKW player will have the fuel. Most of the time; destroying a HQ bury the OKW player 12meter deep, iIt is a critical issue.
Unless you completely repeal the OKW player in its base, he'll always have, soon or later enough to call-in it. Like anybody
Now I have watched many games featuring OKW players, I have play many as well and in most of cases, you see OKW being strong early game, losing field mid game - staying on the map because of the FRP and PanzerHQ, losing one of them or both and ding! the KT is ready, we're up for another 20 minutes where the Allied faction face 2 shots squad wipes and 3 shots your TDs warmachine. No shit Sherlock! If someone meet an OKW player and doesnt face a single significant vehicle until late game (while you just spend 400 fuel yourself) and doesn't prepare for the arrival of a KT, it is clearly a strategic missplay, (read LTP issue). While not easy to deal with, a KT is nothing to be afraid of and often meet his fate quickly against the right tools.
We could say it is fine, normal, as per design but honestly I don't think so. What I see usually is a OKW player skipping T3 units and holding ground with its T1.
And this is why the player in 90% of the cases lose his HQs, because he try to stale and wait for the KT so do not use his fuel to field midgame units (not more than 1 or 2 if you include the luchs). In fact OKW isn't bad at all mid-game, it is just that majority of the player are not using it because the OKW early game units and abilities are so strong and the KT so unavoidable that it is always better to stale for it. Eco KT is qualified as a non-strategy sometimes met in the ladder. If you can't beat a guy who doesnt spend his fuel until the 20th minute, you have to reconsider your global strategy.
Now try to do the same with any other faction. Impossible, not other faction has access to a Stock super-heavy dealing with tanks and infantry. I read that sentence many times to be sure i understoot well. I imagine you do not count regular callins from doctrine, which is debatable as they are aviable after all. YEt, the british faction is known to field two kind of heavies in the lategame. Same ressources invested in both side they 1v1 KT hands on.
Surprisingly, they aren't actually that powerful. With the argument of them being immune, that is the exact opposite. If they don't have a nearby infantry unit to assist, they'll probably get focused on fast, and die. They have the same weaknesses as normal infantry, so they still have weakness. I did test this via attribute editor, so I do know these things. I actually came to these conclusions after multiple tests on attribute editor, because they were under-powered. I think limiting this unit anymore wouldn't make it worth even buying. I still don't understand why people consider these easily wiped squads "terminators." Also I did mention that they are really bad without support due to them having 3 people in the squad, even with 90 health each. I really do appreciate you posting your thoughts, because it helps me clear up some foggy areas in these units. Thanks for the support on the railway artillery! It's always appreciated.
You'r welcome
I may have overracted a little bit. Apologies.
Speaking of fragility, in therms of "effective health", the way you designed them put them in the PG/Obers bracket, which are ok.
The 90HP allow them to survive to a mortarshot which i am sold on yet, and to suffer an additional shot (6) from allied "common rifle" without dying and mitigating 6 dammages (wasted for the ennemy) in the process.
Seems ok.
In terms of offensive power, they come in between Pgrenadiers/Sturmpionners (as they are 150% more effective) and infraredscoped-obers (as they are at 86% of their firepower). The fact that they are only 3 barely compensate for their incredible accuracy.
In terms of vanilla stats, it looks ok after all.
Speaking of abilities,
-The self heal ability still poses me some problems, even if you pay the iron price™ to have it (unlike tommys) as it goes agains the "combined arms" phylosophy of the game.
-Ok with da grenade!
-Orrah and break suppression poses me some problems too as they are very synergic and allow you to bypass the suppression mechanism almost unpunished. When comparing similar spell, the smoke grnade require more attention as it is a skillshot, require precise targeting, is useless against 2+ HMG, require more planning in general and is not/hardly usable while suppressed! I think i would have accepted it if it is only usable in yellow suppression.
I think i would have prefered a smoke, smokes are badass.
-I am unconfortable with the faust, as no other close combat infantry can interact with vehicles without severly hampering his firepower. would be a premiere.
-I miss some kind of warcry ability, after all they are individually selected and inspiring, maybe an aura.
In terme of overall utility, they are an elite closecombat unit that comes around T3 and they completly replace Pgrenadiers in this role.
After all they fill a blank in the OST rooster, which is somethin' to consider.
Not sure about that.
I retire my early comments and only frown upon the abilities aviable.
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