So I claim, that the Wehrmachtofficers were generally better trained educated and more experienced than their Waffen-SS counterparts.
Obviously, prior to the invasion of Russia in June 1941, this statement is correct. However, due to the permanent Waffen-SS presence at the front lines, the experience gained was unmatched by any Wehrmacht formation. The highly motorized divisions allowed for a quick redeployment to help out and fill up any gaps on both the Eastern and Western front lines, mostly on Hitler's own request.
In particular Leibstandarte, Wiking, Das Reich and Totenkopf had disproportionate, as opposed to Wehrmacht formations, front line action, whereas the newer divisions Hohenstauffen, Frundsberg and Hitlerjugend were of a lesser quality due to lower recruitment standards and relatively late war deployment (winter 1943 - 1944). Nonetheless, they were trained by experienced commanders from the Junkerschule and Eastern front veterans.
Your link provides figures on year to year division strengths, so this should give GeneralCH all the tools he needs to calculate the ratio . |
If you have Wehrmacht numbers already, you are close. Assuming you have year to year figures, the number of SS divisions is so limited, it wont take long to gather information about year to year division strengths.
Waffen-SS divisions at the Eastern front (roughly):
June 1941 - 1942: Leibstandarte (got decimated in November), Wiking, Das Reich, Totenkopf and Polizei (relatively small division)
1942 - summer 1942: Wiking and Polizei (Leibstandarte, Das Reich and Totenkopf slowly send off to France)
summer 1942 - 1943: Wiking, Polizei and Nord
1943 - 1944: Wiking, Polizei, Nord, Leibstandarte, Das Reich and Totenkopf
1944 - 1945: Wiking, Polizei, Nord, Leibstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Hohenstauffen (majority of division in western Europe) and Frundsberg (majority of division in western Europe)
Note that all divisions were being split up continuously between fronts, especially during 1944-1945.
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Once upon a time
Four words detected |
High requirements, because the army was drafted out of volunteers. The whole supply chain was fully motorized, true. However smaller compared to wehrmacht ones, which meant the Wehr needed to supply them in addition. The fact that they were that mobile made them ideal for fast movement to push back breaktroughs, not because they were elite. All Panzerdivisions had that role in the end.
Which weapons, vehicles and ammunition did the Waffen SS had advantage of towards the Wehrmacht?
Afaik the TigerII was first delivered to a Wehrmacht unit.
We cannot account for a single piece of clothing or a single type of tank as we are speaking in general terms, of course. The three "classic" SS-divisions Leibstandarte, Totenkopf and Das Reich have played deciding roles on the eastern front. Due to Leibstandarte and Wiking being attached to Army Group A, Das Reich to Army Group B and Totenkopf and Polizei to Army Group C, Waffen-SS played a role on every single part of the front line. When compared to Wehrmacht panzerdivisions, the Waffen-SS had a continuous presence at the front line, which resulted in battle experience, unmatched by any Wehrmacht division. Whether they were elite forces because they were highly motorized or they were highly motorized because they were elite forces, does not change the fact they were given and (mostly) completed heavy tasks.
In particular, after june 1941, the Waffen-SS had build an infamous name for itself, in the eyes of the Wehrmacht. The reasons, of which some are mentioned before, are threefold; 1. Almost all divisions were highly motorized 2. Remarkable combat capabilites 3. Dispersion of forces across the front lines.
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I don´t get where you people have the information from, that Waffen SS was a elite force and took more casualties than other wehrmacht Divisions. Neither was the case (or better to say: it depends on the Division).
It was also not better equipped. One exception is the camo infantry cloathes, which was introduced into Wehrmacht later in the war.
A reason the Waffen-SS is widely considered as an elite force are the high enlisting requirements, which were a lot tougher compared to Wehrmacht requirements. Another reason might be the type of tasks they were given. These difficult tasks combined with relatively low surrender incentives results in a relatively high casualty rate, as you can imagine. The equipment does not refer to clothing, but to weaponry, vehicles and ammunition. In comparison to Wehrmacht forces, the Waffen-SS as a whole were more mobile, had a longer operational employability and were usually equipped with (then) technological advanced weapons. |
A distinction needs to be made between the SS and the Waffen-SS as the latter was referred to in the OP question. The Waffen-SS has been convicted as a criminal organization at Neurenberg, which has been widely discussed by various historians.
Anyways, I went through my library and found an interesting read on the Waffen-SS by John Keegan. According to John Keegan about 25% of tanks at the start of the Eastern offensive were assigned to the Waffen-SS, this number remained stable and even increased later on. As I scanned through the book I did not find any relative infantry figures to Wehrmacht forces, but it is save to assume it is less than 10% of the total German forces at the Eastern front.
Obviously, the tasks assigned to the Waffen-SS were relatively heavy compared to other parts of the German forces. This explains some of the heavy losses discussed earlier in this thread. The Waffen-SS is commonly compared to US rangers, in terms of eliteness. |
07/01/2014
08/01/2014*
Congrats on 3k followers, is the SNF rivalry still active? |
Again: it is not the IOC that determines whether a game is a sport. They merely assess the feasability and the international character of a sport, in order to label it as an Olympic event. Surely anyone can think of locally known sports that lack international competition and will most likely never be an Olympic sport.
As for video gaming, it is highly likely that it will be internationally accepted as a sport in the near future as the non-physical aspect can be removed by adding all sorts of combinations of technology and the human body.
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The first time I heard about the CoH3 Beta was on the first day of the closed CoH2 Beta.... |
Yes, visa fall into the law category . |