It's already got the longest deploy and redeploy timers in the game for an MG. It's been unchanged forever. Speed is no different than it ever really was.
"Speed is no different then it ever really was" is exactly my point - there has to be some balance to the unit. If you are going to make it significantly better at suppressing infantry and also deal more damage and at greater distances, then increase the deploy/redeploy timers so that getting flanked actually has real consequences and you actually do have to worry about a molotov instead of just picking up and moving faster then a molotov can even break and cause damage to the unit.
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A major problem with the unit now is the speed it can pick up and reposition itself. In combination with the fast suppression it makes flanking practically impossible in a lot of map positions and also makes abilities like the molotov completely useless. If the unit is going to be so effective it should go back to having a longer setup and reposition time. |
Yeah, launch a good carefully planned attack combining your infantry and your tanks to try to take an important point of the map, and then "easily dodge" the loiter strafe by removing all of your tanks from the engagement, causing it to fail because now your infantry can't be supported. And be careful not to get too wrapped up in the micro of the now solely infantry-based attack, because sometimes the loiter plane will chase your tank around the map if the ability directly targeted the tank. Congratulations - you just lost map control and your well planned engagement due to the effort of "easily dodging" an overpowered ability.
If soviets had an ability that removed axis tanks from engagements whenever they felt like it, you could sustain life in the desert on the tears of axis fanboys. They already cry about p47s, which do much less damage spread over a much larger amount of time at double the cost of the loiter strafe. If you don't like p47, how can you like something that is better than p47 for less cost packaged in a doctrine that feeds ammo so you never run out?
For that matter, even if you think p47 is fine, you have to realize that something much better than p47 for much cheaper would have to be totally broken. |
I don't understand how so many of you can't understand what a hard counter is. How can you say a tiger isn't a hard counter to anything? A tiger is absolutely a hard counter to US riflemen - it is likely to wipe entire squads in 1 shot even if the squads have carefully cultivated vet 3 over the course of the game, they still have a good chance to get 1-shot. If you can kill a unit in 1 shot you are a hard counter to that unit no matter what your cost was. Hard counters are all about the ability to dominate a unit on the field - it doesn't matter what the price is. Or do you not think a KT is a hard counter to infantry either? |
6 - There is no RNG that goes into Grenades. They do fixed damage over the area, decreasing from the center of the explosion. It all depends on where the grenade is aimed and how much the squad is clumped up, and what cover they're in. No RNG.
A lot of what you're mentioning aren't really good examples of bad RNG. Relic can take many easy steps to fix bad RNG, while keeping good RNG in the game.
There is RNG in how your squad decides to clump up. This will be the case as long as there are no player-selected squad formations. Sometimes the crew of a set up maxim for example is spread out all over the place and sometimes the crew members are sitting right on top of each other. Sometimes even infiltration nades land right on top of team weapons and do virtually no damage, etc. |
Quite possibly it will be changed; I have not argued that everything is A-OK in current implementation, only that decisive off-maps are not inherently contrary to the design.
You say the game is "clearly" about cover, micro etc.; but as I've already pointed out you're ignoring the strategy element. Because if that was ALL the game was intended to be about, there is no reason that it could not occur on a plain map without any resource points. Quite clearly, the intent is ALSO that players should be motivated to contest specific territories, to choose to fight or not fight depending on how valuable a territory is, to split their micro between fighting and capping.
And the reward for that is BOTH fuel, used to bring in heavier units, AND munitions, to increase lethality. Those off-maps are clearly an intentional benefit from map control. They didn't build a game with three different resource currencies by accident.
What are you even talking about now? All of these things fit in perfectly with what I was talking about - micro, unit preservation, and tactical engagements and planning. None of this is in harmony with an offmap ability that can wipe units outside of engagements, just like I said earlier.
You can keep arguing about it if you want, but like I said earlier, relic has a history of agreeing with this position and adjusting offmap abilities accordingly when it becomes clear that they are performing too strongly. |
Its funny people even complain about vet5 jp4 - you basically never see one. You have to be so much better than you opponent to get it to vet5 that you don't even need the vet to begin with. The problems with the jp4 are at vet1 and 2, which are realistic to obtain even if your opponent is pretty good. Really the invisibility wouldn't even be quite as much of a problem if turreted tanks didn't turn their turrets away from the jp4 every time it cloaked again, so then when it uncloaks you can't shoot it because your tank is looking the wrong way again.
That being said, it still shouldn't be able to move forward while cloaked. You shouldn't be able to farm veterency by rolling forward, sniping a shot at the enemy, then rolling backwards. The tank isn't meant to be a scout so why should it be able to scout? Cloaking on the Luchs makes sense because it is a tank that is basically only useful for scouting late game anyway, and it gives this tank a potentially fun/interesting role once heavier armor stops it from being able to drive around shooting infantry. jp4 should be revealed when it is in motion and I can't think of a single logical argument why this wouldn't be the case - even snipers can't run around cloaked. |
Why is squippy coming in on every post and trying to make it about opinions? You can look at facts and point to inconsistencies between the games design/intent, and the performance of a particular ability.
If the game intent is clearly to promote tactical engagements using unit micro, a cover system, a retreat system, a system of carefully cultivating veterency to improve your squads, etc., then having an offmap ability that negates all of these things is not consistent with the game design and needs to be toned down.
You can also look at previous patches and you will find that Relic has a history of making these kinds of changes (toning down too-powerful offmap abilities) for this exact reason - the stuka CAS support ability will be changed as well. |
An ability can counter something, but it isn't a hard-counter due to the dodgeable and momentary nature of abilities. The only exception I would say would be vs static targets which will pretty much be 100% killed with call in strikes.
There are plenty of ways to set up abilities so they can't be dodged - strafe on the edge of a map, offmap on retreat point set to hit right as retreating points arrive, etc. There is quite a disconnect right now between different offmap abilities - some are so easy to dodge they are effectively worthless, and some are nearly impossible to dodge. Many are in between. I guess I will repeat myself again - if something can quickly and easily kill your unit, and your unit cannot retaliate, then it is a hard counter. The stuka CAS strafe is an easy hard counter to jacksons - it will adjust its strafe aim even as it is mid-strafe and it is very difficult to dodge - on small maps it can be nearly impossible. |
By your definition a KT would not be a hard counter to a rifle squad because it costs way more in relationship to the rifle - this is a stupid metric definition. If a unit or ability can easily wipe another unit, it is a hard counter regardless of cost. |