With a 50% chance to penetrate long range, and Elefant having the Hp it's having, you're better off using tulips to help start a dive to kill the ele, followed by a katyusha or some other salvo of indirects around the elefant (paks, raketen... but also trigger mines) and then you dive. Using tulips and just hammering away at the elefant with the FFs is not really advisable, unless the elefant is completely naked.
We're getting offtopic here but it changes completely if you mark the elefant as Sovs. I play guard motor or Mechanized support 80% of my team games as soviets. Double FF forces it to back up or die quite often when it's taking 35% more damage
Mark, ram with a 76, and watch the health melt. It's not foolproof, but it works very well especially with voice chat coordination (I rarely play 3s with randoms)
Vet 0 FF does 270 dmg per shot to a marked tank, so it can kill an ele in 4 shots
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AEC doesn't count as a unit once its a command vehicle lmao and you're either up against an elefant with a panzer 4 command (increased durability and better odds), or it has spotting scope maphacks and will fire off the 1st shot.
Not really sure what you're going for here. Honestly 2 FF are decently threatening against an elefant thanks to tulips, with or without cmd AEC support
Brits have some pretty good recon/spotting themselves, and their tanks can get better FOW tracking. Brits struggle with a lot of things, but they're pretty good at killing heavy TDs. Especially with an ally distracting it
I have rammed many elefants with t34s just to setup a kill from my brit teammate |
And the majority of things I pointed out would make it better in 1vs1 without impacting 4vs4 significantly.
If you buff it's AI that would definitely effect team games. If you want AI performance there's great stock options. If you want the RD aura, you get a cmd p4 |
It highlight the problems of the unit and thus useful by my definition.
They're only problems if you weigh the negatives against the positives and they don't match up
In 1v1, they don't. Add teammates and the benefits increase significantly. Its far from the only unit in the game thats only useful in either team games or 1v1, but not both |
I have explained what the problems with C.Pz are in post 2 and I am moving on.
I read that post, you didn't even mention the 1 reason anyone builds the unit. No mention of the aura, no mention of how it's clearly a team game unit
That's not useful analysis by any definition |
If you claiming that this commanders are in the load out because of the C.Pz you will need more top make your case.
Why else would they be there? There are other commanders above them that have howitzers or elefants and spotting scopes. And yet still people pick them enough to be top 10
And I don't if you don't. You said they are offmeta. That alone shows that's not true. If that's not good enough for you then you also need better proof of them being offmeta.... It works both ways
I was responding to a comment by Hannibal who wrote:
"It is incredibly strong in team games when you can support your teammates' forces and literally buff units worth >100 population for a coordinated push."
If you agree with the comment pls elaborate, if you disagree or you want to say something else on the subject there is no need to quote me.
You need to elaborate. You didn't respond to anything he said. You just said "I never see it"
I can't make my point any clearer. It's amazing with an arranged team |
And just because German mechanized is more popular does not mean that it chosen for the C. Pz4 and not the spotting scope.
I didn't say it was, though it would be bizarre to pick that cmdr just for spotting Scopes. You're the one who brought up commander pickrate for Jaeger Armor.... There are 2 in the top 10 with cmd p4. That's just a fact
Calling it off meta is an exaggeration
What exactly is the point you are trying to make here? That C. Panzer is so good that is being used all the time in large modes?
Not sure why you are asking me this, it was literally in the post you just quoted:
The command p4 is amazing in arranged teams, there's a reason the bonus had to be nerfed from 20% to 10%. Despite that it's still really good in teams
It's an received damage aura bonus that effects your team. I'm not sure why that needs to be explained as being useful in team games |
You are entitled to play off meta.
Stats:
https://coh2stats.com/stats?range=range&statsSource=all&type=4v4&race=wermacht&fromTimeStamp=1631145600&toTimeStamp=1656201600
498.661 games with Jaeger Armor Doctrine in load out
164.824 games with Fortified Armor Doctrine in load out
You know Fortified isn't the only commander with the cmd p4 right? That's not a relevant point at all. Spotting Scopes synergy with the elefant being amazing doesn't have anything to do with the command tank. German Mechanized is very popular too
My favorite commander is also not important, that's literally the point I was making Vipper... You just said :
I have played several large mode games and I hardly see the unit.
This has just as much value as me saying my favorite commander in team games. Which is close to none. It's a personal observation
The command p4 is amazing in arranged teams, there's a reason the bonus had to be nerfed from 20% to 10%. Despite that it's still really good in teams |
How is this remotely comparable? AEC doesn't do much in the late game so putting the command aura on it (even with penalties) is a net big buff to YOUR army.
The bold word is the only reason this is "remotely comparable". AEC only effects your units, which is a sensible balance measure
The Cmd P4 effects everyone on your team, and it's the best type of stat bonus a unit can get. Their value is absolutely comparable, if anything the Cmd P4 is much better when it comes to team games specifically
In 1v1s Id say the cmd AEC is much more useful than Cp4. If brit cmd effected your teammates it would be absurdly broken, obviously
I have played several large mode games and I hardly see the unit.
Congratulations. I also have played a lot of team games, Fortified Armor is my most used wher commander the last year or so
It's much more common to see it with arranged teams then random ones |
UKF planes have better value then overwatch planes, IF there are proper AA counters around. And I've pointed it out.
Killing tanks is better value than killing infantry. A full HP comparison is useless, any good player will use the loiter after the fight has already started or as they are about to push. And that goes for all factions
On top of that OKW will have AA no matter what, UKF needs to devote popspace to it. Sector Assault is by far the best in any realistic scenario. Unless you count soviet AT overwatch since it can't be shot down
P47 fly off the map almost always, its not constantly circling around, therefor its harder to kill.
P47s are wildly unreliable, might get you a KT kill, might miss every single rocket. Also has collision issues on a large number of maps
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