Its mainly an OKW issue more than an Ostheer issue. Every unit they have is just so powerful. The Walking stuka, all their infantry. They have so much manpower to use its ridiculous, they can make gigantic infantry hoardes like nothing.
When I play OKW having 10 Volksgrenadier squads isn't a surprise. What I do is spam Volksgrenadiers and then make two Raketenwerfers, and two Ostwinds, and GGWP, cuz there are too many Volks for anyone to deal with.
There's just soooo many issues with OKW ugh
When it comes to competitive 3v3 and 4v4 OKW is much less effective than Ostheer due to artillery proliferation and the fuel penalty. Typically your 3v3 and 4v4 pro combo will be 2 Ost 1 OKW or 3 Ost 1 OKW maybe sometimes 2 OKW and 2 Ost if your feeling brave.
There just simply is no advantage for taking more than 1 OKW, since just the 1 can get all then Stuka's you need and or the trucks you need.
Also massed Volks are far, far inferior to massed Fuss or simply a more combined arms approach. Someone who knows how to kite or crush will just ruin your day. |
You know what is a common for all these units and not for ppsh cons?
They load their guns with real bullets instead of "bang" flags.
Con ppsh is LEAST effective CQC weapon in game, its less effective then certain rifles and assault rifles that deal great damage at mid and long range as well.
Alternative to giving con ppsh survivability buff post upgrade, you can always buff the dps of ppsh themselves, so they actually kill stuff once they are on top of it, because with current DPS, they certainly don't.
I think your exaggerating. Ass Gren MP40's do a grand total of 1 more DPS at close range. The solution to the SMG woes of these units (since basically only Assault Engineers and Shocks are worth getting) would be to make SMG profiles more similar to the Assault Rifle profile of the StG44.
As said earlier; the upgrade should probably also give you a lot more of them (like 4-5). |
They could make the searchlight break any time it takes damage. It is a big piece of glass after all!
It actually used to do this before the Crit changes! |
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Also probably should point this out to: received accuracy is multiplicative not additive meaning there is diminishing returns on additional levels of reduced received accuracy, for instance.....
Vet 0 Sturms: .87
Vet 2 Sturms: 0.6699
Vet 4 Sturms: 0.515823
Vet 0 Obers: .7
Vet 3 Obers: 0.497
Vet 4 Obers: 0.35287
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This means that your claim is wrong.
The way you worded it made it sound like it would change their received accuracy to .8, since that's how it's worked in the unit files (in target size basically). But still it would give them better received accuracy than Grens and the same received accuracy as Sturms (320 MP) and Fallsch (440 MP).
Add on top of that -23% received accuracy at vet 3 and they would have better received accuracy than vet 0 Obers.
It's currently 4:44 AM here. So yeah sorry if my reading skills aren't up to snuff.
To elaborate. At .87 received accuracy + their Vet 3 times .77 received accuracy would give them 0.6699 received accuracy which would make them one of the cheapest units to reinforce in the game while having better durability than Obersoldaten.
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Keep in mind that cons have a base 1.087 accuracy modifier, so giving them a 0.8 would just mean
1.087 x 0.80 = 0.87
Alternitavely you can just buff the DPS of the con PPSH to match shock troop levels, or slightly worse than that.
But it's pretty clear that con ppsh upgrade is a huge waste and needs a buff.
The way you worded it made it sound like it would change their received accuracy to .8, since that's how it's worked in the unit files (in target size basically). But still it would give them better received accuracy than Grens and the same received accuracy as Sturms (320 MP) and Fallsch (440 MP).
Add on top of that -23% received accuracy at vet 3 and they would have better received accuracy than vet 0 Obers. |
Short range only infantry with short range upgrade would have better rec acc then dedicated long range infantry and mid range infantry with incomparably better weapons, so that short range infantry with short range upgrade wouldn't be torn apart on approach and actually stand up long enough to deal damage with their weak weapons despite them being dedicated CQC doctrinal upgrade?
Who in his right mind would do that?
Oh, I know!
Anyone having a slightest clue on how balance works!
I don't think you understand the implications of a squad with 6 models while having a received accuracy value at Vet 3 that would make high vet JLI blush. Like recieved accuracy works like this; it's really effective versus rifled slow firing units (hint: this is what most Axis units use) and not really all that powerful versus rapid fire weapons (which is a very large part of why LMG's are insanely good).
Yes obviously with PPSh's they wouldn't be doing a whole lot at range but they would be terrifying on urban maps and be able to stand up to fairly withering fire along with cheap reinforcing. Would be a fairly problematic combination.
There have been very good suggestions in this thread like making it a global upgrade or simply adding more to the squad to make it punch harder but giving Conscripts better durability than 320 - 440 MP units for 60 munitions is really silly. |
My suggestion is to give the cons 4 PPSH, but also give cons some received accuracy with the upgrade like 0.8 to help them close the gap
This would give them better received accuracy then Grens, Sturms, Fallsch, and the same received accuracy as Pgrens and JLI. At vet 3 they would have one of the best received accuracy values in the game.
Shocks 100% 35 32 1.66 1.5 armor
Conscripts 108.7% 35 20 1
Guard/CE/Penal 100% 35 27/21/22 1
Ostheer:
Pioneers 100% 42 25 1.25
Grenadiers 91% 35 30 1.75
Assault gren 100% 35 28 1.4
PGrens 80% 35 42 2
Ostruppen 125% 35 16 0.833 1 sec reinforce
Stormtroopers 75% 35 33 2.25
USF:
Rifle/Lieut/Capt 97% 35 28/25/30 1.4/1.5/1.5
RE 100% 35 20 1
Pathfinder 100% 50 37 2
Paratrooper 100% 35 28 1.5
AE 100% 35 32 1.75 ignore snow movement penalties
OKW:
Volksgrenadier 100% 35 23 1.2
Pfusilier 100% 35 24 1.166
Sturmpio 87% 35 32 2 ignore snow movement penalties
Obersoldaten 70% 35 50 2.5
Jaeger 80% 50 37 2
Fallschirm 87% 35 47 2.5 |
Real life is what I was referring to. 75 l/48 is the stug, hetzer and late pIV, l/70 was panther and jpIV. At any rate OKW has a great TD and they also have the Panther, both stock. And now a quality stock medium. Fairly solid AT gun. Doctrinal Pak43 and Jagdtiger. Shreks on their core inf. Not hurting for AT options at all. I really think a flamethrower tank would be a more interesting inclusion for the faction.
The reason why on paper OKW has plentiful AT is because in practice you might get like a handful of shreks and a JPIV with some racktens. Ever having a combo of the things you listed is very rare and in most normal competitive things you will be forced to "make do".
This isn't even getting into the fact that artillery propagation has kinda killed Fort (along with the MG34 nerf), and Jadgtigers are quite rare now to because they come so late into the game at such a high fuel price. Most of the time it's just not feasible to be able to hold out for one.
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260ish manpower, 10 fuel.
Fuel cost can't really be nuch higher than that, okw has enough fuel trouble as is.
200mp 0 fuel makes it so damn expendable and hardly rewards killing it.
+1
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