Profile of hubewa

good post. SOV should retain their ability to not tech beyond T3 and still be viable.

although I feel SOV T3 might be too cheap. maybe raise the FU cost to 100 and lower T4 FU cost to 100.

I don't think Penn nerfs would stop this from happening. By the time German heavy armour comes out, so does Soviet heavy armour. I mean SU-76 will still have a long window of use, just not the whole game that's all.

Alright, then would you feel better if SU-76s came later but everything stayed the same? That seems to be the message you're giving me. I wouldn't mind if T3 was pushed back by 10 fuel or something since M5 and SU-76 are problem units, but there is really no elegant way to push SU-76's back too much without crippling SU. Nerfing them would spell disaster as they would be locked out of a reliable TD until they have enough fuel to afford their most expensive tank in the last tier. I feel like the design of SU in CoH 2 doesn't leave a lot to work with. For now, a scaling TD that arrives mid-game might just have to be a thing that Axis have to work around.

But timing for the SU-76 is a little off-topic, so I will leave it at that.

I think in the last patch , Relic has broken the fundamental rule of balance - if you're making big changes, go big. They've changed a lot of the roles of units when it comes down to the narrative of the game and timing, but forgot to change a lot of the stats of the stuff they've changed, so it leads to the current M5/SU-76 situation we're in.

I feel the easiest thing to do is to make the SU-76 a purely early-midgame unit. That is, a unit that can deal with P4s and nothing heavier than that, with barrage being a bit more accurate too (so give SU-76 ZIS stats for barrage). People are still going to build SU-76, and it is still strong early to mid game, but leave it to that really. (IE a Pennetration nerf, a range nerf would hurt the SU-76 more than a penn nerf)

In most strategy games you find, if a unit can be spammed, its because its really good at one stage of the game, but its really limited in others/has reliable counters. If the latter doesn't happen, then we call that unit broken. The most famous example is, of course, zerglings.

I have no problem with T-34-76 spam in the past, I had no problem with M10/M18 spam in CoH1 but yeah, I think talking about the SU-76 in this discussion is kinda derailing your point a bit because it is a controversial vehicle, but I mostly agree with all your points.

this is why you dont know a thing about balance!

this is not a real life simulator,deal with it!

We need a Karma system so I can negrep this guy everytime he posts. The Caps lock is real.

Where to start?

Side story time (completely exaggerated but i've given up replying seriously to you):

In Nabarxos' Alternate CoH2 Universe

Show Spoiler

Just no, please, no

And the SU-85 isn't even expensive. And you've got cheap multipurpose mines, so to say you don't have any counters is a bit rich.

Also ever heard of flanking? You should try it sometime

anyways what you just said is stupid,you just confirmed how little you know about balance and equality yet demand a units performance to be nerfed CAUSE its doing its job.

Firstly, I doubt you even have a 10k 1v1 rank, secondly, ppl ask for nerfs because its doing its job too well.

But see, that's why I made this post. They're supposed to begin countering Axis late game equivalents in numbers. My lengthy previous posts aside (which I think justify 2-3 SU-76s vs. 1 panther nicely), 2 SU-76s cost 150 fuel. In a head-to-head engagement with no flanking or other tactics whatsoever (in which the SU-76s cannot do and the Panther can do), why shouldn't they be able to fight back against a Panther's 175 fuel?

And Tigers... Truly, they are more vulnerable to SU-76s than a Panther due to their slower nature, but I would attribute that to a Panther's overperformance as well as the fact that those two hold different roles in combat. Tigers slowly break through a line while Panthers use Blitz tactics. TD's of any type, not just SU's, are better against the former than the latter, so maybe if you see SU's being spammed, a strategically sound choice would be to withhold from Tigers.

I actually really doubt any amount would help against an Elefant though.

Well, that would be true in the previous meta and timing of units, if the SU-76 was in the TD building.

But now, what you have is the SU-76s dominating the Panthers in every engagement in 1v1 maps which are smaller.

Also Fuel, considering the timing of units and cost of teching to these units, is a bit of a miscomparison. It costs a lot more to build your first panther than your second, just as it costs a lot more to build your first SU-76 than your 2nd or 3rd.

That and with the strong T3 soviets get, they get to tech/build SU-76s a lot faster by pushing the Germans off the field.

As an Early/midgame vehicle, I feel the SU-76 is far too good for the time when it arrives. I think vehicle balance should be more framed by pop cost, fuel, role and when it arrives on the battlefield.

Why not just offer a AT rifle upgrade to Grens and Volks that would give them a moderate increase in AI performance as well as the ability to help stave off light vehicle rushes?

Volks Light Anti Tank Package: 90 munitions upgrading the squad with 3 AT rifles and enabling the ability to lay light AT mines no truck required

Grens Light Anti Tank Package: 60 munitions upgrading the squad with 2 AT rifles and enabling the ability to fire the panzerfaust at longer ranges BP 1 required.

Your unit is becoming so versatile its becoming Soviet. ^^