Profile of hubewa

The SU-85 was made because they couldn't fit the 85mm gun onto the T-34 or KV-1, so the ISU-122 chassis was used instead. When they did get the 85mm gun onto the T-34 in , there was no good reason to continue production of the SU-85. SU-85 production was halted and production of the SU-100 was commenced in 1944.

Yep, its a rare case of a vehicle getting superceeded in WW2 not because of War Performance but because of something available that was similar but better.

The war record of the SU-85 was still good and based on that, I'd still represent it in the game with good endgame performance.

So I guess, in the list that you made, only the SU-85 kinda stands out. While the T-34/76 and the KV-1/2 became obsolete in practical senses fighting against armour, this didn't really happen for the SU-85.

The SU-76, on the other hand, started to fall off as soon as panthers and tigers appeared. Unlike the SU-85, it didn't really have much of a fighting chance frontally against the newer German tanks.

And yes, the special ammunition you referred to earlier? It was APCR

Vehicles reverse at the same speed they go forward.

Four SU-76s cost more than a KT costs, and they have a worse AI performance even with the barrage. If they didn't have a better AT performance than an equivalent amount of fuel spent on other tanks, they'd be useless, just as they've been for the past year and a half.

That's why I'm in favour of buffing AI and reducing AT. I'm not in favour of an SU-76 nerf without compensation.

I think it's silly for it to kill Tigers and KTs, I don't think it's silly for it to have good AI performance.

Oh and when I started thinking it had slower reverse speed... I've been playing waaaay too much WoT ha-ha.

I'd just want the SU-76 to be seen as a flexible early-mid game unit not a tank smashing unit. At its current position in the tech tree, that's what it is and should be, and there's a strong historical case for it too.

Again, which "proper AT options" are you talking about?

ATG, mines, SU-85, T-34-85 is good against tanks too

Doctrinal - IS-2, ISU, mark target, Sherman M4C

Semi AT- Guards Button, Conscript AT made.

These are the multitude of AT options available to the Soviets excluding their SU-76, which IMO should retain its AT power against anything no heavier than a P4.

If there is anything that tends to worry me more as a Sov commander, its not AT, its infantry engagements.

Ya, just tried out a few games as OKW to see on the receiving end as to how op the SU-76 was. Was extremely surprised, especially after having just read a 10 page bitch fest about how op the SU-76 was, as to how not OP it was. Seriously the jagdpanzer ruins them. And hey, if that didn't work, a puma, racketen or even my core infantry that had panzershreks all worked just fine.

What I did remember is that the general player quality of the average axis player is lower then that of the allies, they require less micro and thought into how there going to play. All this "su-76 is op" garbage is just people not adjusting there static strategies to a new environment.

Looking at your playercard, you haven't played your first 10 games so its hard to work out the quality of your opponents.

What I can tell you is it is definitely viable to keep your SU-76s back. The thing that makes the SU-76 click is the range. Its fragile so ppl would never try pushing, they tend to soften up with infantry and let snipers/shocks/cons do the rest of the work. When it comes to the M5 as well, Shrecks won't even get close to the SU-76.

If your opponent was trying to push with SU-76 spearhead, he isn't a very good player.

Yeah, glad we agree. It's bullshit. I've never killed a kubel on full health with one hit from a ZiS, perhaps other SOV players can corroborate this?

Again, if you're going for historical realism, there were less than 500 KT's ever built. Yet I seem to see them every game on this. For historical realism reasons, they should probably just be removed.

More KTs were built in the war than Ostwinds/Brummbar/Sturmtigers.

So for you, artistic license is - exploding shell from tank landing less than 2 feet from a squad, none of them die - fine. Tank Destroyer actually penetrating a tank and doing SOME (not HUGE) damage - beyond the pale. Is that about right?

Well... A squad irl typically has 12-15 men, not 4-6, so if 3-4 guys die, Id say its representative of 75% of ppl dying. (Although if you had the option on every tank of firing HE like the Sher, the AI would be much better, atm, it looks like other tanks are firing AP at infantry ^^ )

TD pennetrating a tank - well yeah, but you have to look at which one. SU-76 was becoming obsolete at around 1943-1944 when it had to fight Panthers, Tigers and KTs. The SU-85 on the other hand, can fight Panthers, Tigers and KTs, no problem with this.

SU-76 is a bit unique in the sense that it is the only vehicle in the game in which, considering when the game was set, it was starting to become obsolete, unlike the M10, M36, sherman. (Okay, there's another tank that was obsolete in the game - the command Pz 4, it can't penn tanks for shit which is fine because its an IST anyway).

I still see ZERO issue with su76's damaging KT's and Tigers. Stugs damage my IS2.

Considering HTs are nerfed to 1 tank at a time, I feel the heavy tanks seriously need a buff. A lot of the game's mechanics to Relic's error remained the same prior to them making fundamental changes to gameplay.

As a point of interest, when the SU-76 was completely useless and never built during games for all those years before it finally got buffed.....were you calling for it to be buffed? Or were you quite happy with it being useless like 99% of Axis players?

I felt something needed to be done with the SU-76, in the past I always used to be a T1/T3 or a T2/T3 player because I liked the T-34/76.

I had tried to play it in the past, it was okay against light vehicles and P4s but I never brought it up against heavy tanks because of historical expectations.

Also, please keep a track of your next 20 games and tell me how many KV8's you see, thanks.

Will do, I might bring a KV-8 into a game sometime, although tbh, considering how good T3 is in dealing with infantry, you're not likely to see KV-8s anymore.