aimstrong's strategy was holding on with his tommies until he can get the centaur and commandos going.
If they are going to be nerfed, the tommies are going to need a buff.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zWvP-tmqoCN3fJey9-WPX9VBJzmMoS_E90VrvgsA3Uw/edit#gid=0
http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/grenadier_kar_98k_rifle_mp
http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/grenadier_mg42lmg_mp
The lee enfield itself is good but not that amazing. It's got better long range DPS than the grenadier but worst dps up close.
the out of cover penalty on the lee enfield is pretty minor. The far bigger penalty is actually the 75% accuracy penalty on the moving.
The cover mechanic is mainly for the bren, but even in cover the bren is inferior to the lmg42.
I don't think aimstrong brought a single bren or piat in any of his game.
I'm fine with pairing an IS buff to a centaur nerf...would also like to see an AEC buff since nobody bought the thing the entire OCF tournament in the games I watched.
And you are correct, Aimstrong never even bought a weapon rack the entire time. |
You should add an option for yes it's dead in 1v1 but great in team games. Then I would vote for that one. |
I would encourage you to watch some replays of top players, some of their openings may not be what is best for you and your comfort/skill level but I guarantee you a few we'll catch your eye. For instance in this tournament DEVM consistently went Gren, MG, sniper in every game of the finals and he would field a second sniper before Mid game then replace any sniper losses to always have two in play. |
Their durability alread way to hight and should be reduced.
No it is in a good spot for flame weapons of any kind and indirect fire do wonderous damage to it |
Thread: Centaur29 Sep 2015, 12:23 PM
Having used and abused the Centaur in automatch a little, there are two problems I can see with its current implementation.
1. DPS. DPS is extreme and garrison clear is broken, which leads to it being extremely lethal against its own counters such as the Pak40 and Raketen, moreso than any other unit of its type (Ostwind, T70). Lowering lethality and increasing speed in exchange would fix this issue, but everyone already knows that.
2. British tech design. Tank tech was dropped to 280MP / 115F in the last major patch. This cost is lower than any other faction's ability to get comparable units (Ostheer T3, Soviet T4, Major), and is perfectly fine in its own right. This was to be counteracted by the fact that the British player would need to obtain fuel upgrades and dead-end tech units to maintain map presence- the trade offs being the core of any strategy game. These are- Universal Carrier, 5-man squads, Weapon racks, Grenades, Hammer + AEC, and Anvil + Bofors.
This is similar to how T2 works for Ostheer- the 222 slows down T3 speed through unit cost + T2 cost. However, the 222 is invaluable to keeping map control and pays off more than a straight T3 rush through constant counterharrass, as an anti-sniper soft counter, etc.
However, in my experience with the Brits, the solid core of Sections, Snipers, Vickers, Royal Engineers, the 6pdr, and the very effective Vanguard Glider / Commandos are more than enough to hold sufficient ground for fast tech to be by far the superior alternative.
This is particularly due to the linear tech structure of the Brits- Ostheer T1-T3 can be punished by a fast light vehicle, for example, which goes uncountered without investment in T2 for a Pak. However, the Brits will never lack access to their core units due to their straight T1-T2-T3 progression. Of special note is that they will never not have access to very effective antitank, which due to extremely high accuracy and low cost is much stronger versus light vehicles than any other AT gun. The 6pdr is enough antitank to carry a Brit to the Centaur and well beyond, into the lategame, so much so that the 17pdr, Piats, Bofors, and AEC are totally unnecessary.
On top of the sufficient strength of the British core, the dead end tech + units and upgrades often do not have enough impact to justify their purchase. The UC is underwhelming with the Wasp nerf, the AEC does not punish overinvestment into infantry in a meaningful way unlike the Quad, T70, M20, AAHT, and Stuart. Bofors is not necessary, Bren LMGs, and 5-man squads are useful but not necessary, and the Mills bomb is just bad, especially since Sections are bad flankers and are never spammed in the first place.
I believe that a readjusting the strengths of these mid-tier upgrades, making them more viable alternatives OR making these upgrades necessary for the survival of the Brit player against certain builds will go a long way towards making the Brits more multidimensional and interesting to play, and to play against.
Postscript- I do not deny that the Brits crutch on the Centaur vs competent opponents quite heavily. Other unit adjustments should probably be considered (Section ROF out of cover, reinforce value adjustment, Universal Carrier performance). These changes, in conjunction with the above suggestion, would be, imo, ideal.
This should be the end of the thread. It only took 9 pages to get to a well thought out explanation of problem and solution too |
I'll have to disagree with you there. IS are great infantry. Even with base rifles they do great vs. other squads. The only real issue they have is the fact that they get too big of a penalty out of cover, making offensive actions nigh impossible.
Sappers are quite good, and heavy engineers are amazing, but that is more the result of weapon racks allowing you to put lmgs (the most efficient weapon upgrade) on any unit.
The only change IS need is a lessening of the penalty for being out of cover. This will help fix many of the issues brits have with countering enemy light artillery.
+1 from your lips to Relic's ears |
Magnificence of being wiped by 1 grenade and 1 mortar shell?
No thx, i will stick to sappers, snipers, vickers and commandos, this way it possible to have some manpower.
Aim strong put on a show with the British all weekend and did it all weekend and did it without without crocodile and banned vanguard commander. He always built at least two total infantry sections for a total of three. They seemed pretty durable and he never even gave them upgrades which I question but he was still getting squads to vet three by late game so they did damage. The double snipers in finals by DEVM did exploit sections but it's hard to say that's the main factor considering Armstrong counter sniped him 2x and used commandos to wipe a host of snipers. |
This is not where it went wrong. Where it went wrong was where relic decided to cut pak howis, LEIG scatter values in half (this makes them around 4 times more accurate than they were before)
Of course this was a ninja change , and i doubt relic was even aware of this change when they pushed the patch
+ infinity
I am sympathetic to both the US and OKW need for indirect fire that doesn't cost fuel but long range stock light artillery can't both snipe units at long range and suppress. Increase scatter back to close to pre-patch and either got rid of suppression or nerf damage. |
This thing can cover the whole base of your opponent on all 1vs1 maps. Further more, OKW is designed in a way which requires you to use forward HQs in order to remain in game. Nevertheless, ML20 can reach out your base sector, so your HQs won't be safe even if you deploy your trucks inside your base. High damage, 1000 penetration and small scatter make this unit into an instant I-Win button. You wonder why they designed OKW in this way if a single howie can completely end the game for you. Any of the following changes could solve the issue and this unit will retrain its usefulness.
- Massive penetration nerf
- Increased scatter
- Damage reduction (same as all other howies)
It's hardly an I Win button and I only use them on 3v3 and up because they are a big MP sink and they aren't accurate enough to hit anything except static targets so pretty much base buildings, bunkers and trucks. As other said, it isn't hard to get a unit close to them and gun their crew or toss a nade. Luckily for OKW you can get units out of houses (Falls) but if you used another doctrine almost all your infantry have some type of grenade available....best advice I can give you when you think a unit is an "I win" button...try playing with that faction and bring out their OP unit then see how your enemy counters...you will often see they aren't as awesome as you think. I know from experience |
Honestly I'd be happy if at the very least they added some actual gameplay mechanic to it. Maybe it could only auto-fire in the cone of fire you point it towards (like an mg)?
The frustration isn't about the stats or anything, it's the fact that a dirt cheap and easily accessible unit can have such a massive impact on the game without you actually having to play it. These "oh look I wiped a squad" and "oh I guess the isg sniped my sniper" moments really need to go.
The same goes for the pack howie to a lesser extent. The frustration is the same but howie at least has less range and can't camp behind med/flak truck and fire into your base.
+1 I'm all for making units as user friendly to micro as possible so the game isn't like Starcraft where insane APM is critical to being good. But a unit that has better range than mortar and does suppression should at least have to be turned towards enemy units before auto targeting. If they made that then they can slightly nerf suppression and leave ROF the same. If they keep auto turn and target then they should nerf auto fire ROF and again slight nerf to suppression. |