Thread: (H)MG34 7 Apr 2020, 20:53 PM
There's a difference between being able to trade and out DPS against non HMG34s, and just not even having a chance with the HMG34.
All of them should follow the same rules, not just 1. Volks cannot push BAR'd rifles or 7 man cons. Not unless you're blobbing up to the cover and pray he doesn't dodge a flamenade.
if he dodge the flamnade he goes out of cover?
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I wonder if a similar solution to the Brit snipers Aimed Shot could work meaning that the quality of the crit would be determined by the unit type it is used against. That way the damage the T34 receives could also be adjusted in a fairer way.
For example - off the top of my head - ramming an ultra light vehicle like the Kubel (while making the best trade deals) could only cause a stun to the T34 while ramming a medium tank would cause both tanks to receive engine damage (then both tanks have a chance to retreat and mediums aren't as prone to one clicks)
Ramming a Heavy could then be adjusted to give a different tactical advantage instead of just mutually assured unit deletion. For example the Brit snipers jam the main gun of Heavy tanks for quite a long while - if similar crits would be applied to ram then ramming a Heavy wouldn't be a death sentence to the tank in question but instead severely reduce its DPS in a fight / require Axis players to micro the Heavy more to keep the jammed turret pointing at the enemy.
This solution would bring consistency to the ability and limit the deadly synergy Ram and off-maps currently have. It would also encourage Soviet players to use ram in more creative ways hopefully - for example choosing to reduce the DPS of the Axis heavy or harassing the mediums/premiums supporting it. The reduced disparity between risk/reward could then be used to justify lesser penalties to the T34 as well.
Your nickname made it all. |
Not really the unit should be balanced according to current state of the game not to what it used to be since too many things have changed.
Then it is already balanced. end of discussion  |
Can pls cut the crap? And your conspiracy theories I have provided with all the information that come with patch changes and it has proven your claim to be false.
Now read the patch notes:
" M36 Jackson
The M36 is having its damage modified to be more reliable against tanks, including heavies, but less potent in terms of burst damage against lower health vehicles.
Cost from 360/125 to 400/140
Damage from 200 to 160
Reload from 5.2/5.8 to 4.375/4.975; does not affect HVAP
HVAP damage decreased from 240 to 200
HVAP penetration from 300/250/220 to 300/280/250
Penetration from 240/220/200 to 260/240/220
Health from 480 to 640
Veterancy 3 reload bonus from 30% to 15% "
The HVAP did 240 not the auto fire.
As for mediums with 200 damage the unit simply ovekilled it needed 4 shots (as it now also does) that took longer to fire.
The change traded damage that lead to ovekill vs mediums for ROF and Penetration. Overall the M36 became deadlier.
Your claim that: "changes have always been survivability in exchange of firepower," is simply false.
That's the second change, Jackson has been overall adjusted 2 times.
1st time to make it less OP vs mediums and more relevant vs heavies (less firepower for more penetration)
2nd time to give it more survivability and reload reduction in exchange of firepower and price increase
So whatever you aim to reverse, health, penetration or reload should come with or a reduction of price to its previous state or increase firepower to its previous state. |
That is incorrect damage was 200 not 240 and the increase in ROF and penetration more than makes up for it.
That is incorrect the intend was to make it more reliably in delivering damage to heavily armored target:
"M36 Jackson
The M36 is having its damage modified to be more reliable against tanks, including heavies, but less potent in terms of burst damage against lower health vehicles."
The m36 got buff both in HP and damage output.
Aaah the selective reader, always prone to highlight the half of changes that serve his story
The Jackson had issues dealing damage consistently due to its lower penetration. Our team has chosen to reduce the damage dealt by the M36 while also increasing the penetration; two changes we feel will offset each other in an ideal way. This will allow for the Jackson to retain its current role while also being a more consistent tank destroyer. This is an indirect buff to Wehrmacht Tier 3, in which every tank was hard countered by the Jackson in its current form.
Damage reduced from 240 to 200
Penetration increased from 160 / 180 / 200 to 200 / 220 /240
AP rounds penetration increased from 220 / 250 / 280 to 240 / 270 / 300
Oh you mentioned the less potent in terms of burst damage vs medium, here it is. 240 to 200 in exchange of better penetration.
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The only things that were adjusted were its price and its health, then later its vision because it had more vision than other tanks had firing range. It retains its high mobility, accuracy, HVAP and self heal crew. All relics of it being a glass cannon. Which it is no longer. It needs redesigned and it, aside from the high pen of the su85 and the crazy high vet bonus it has are the only issues with allied TDs. The Jackson entire, and the high pen of the su85 being too high.
I like how to avoid to mention the damage reduction from 240 to 160. Oh and
We are reworking the M36 Jackson tank destroyer to give it more survivability in order to allow it to face late-game threats. In exchange for the Jackson changes, USF Riflemen now lose access to smoke grenades. This change will ensure that players continue fostering a mixed-squad army well into the late-game, and will also reward players more for using USF's elite infantry. .
Jackson were given extra sigh and then removed.
It is fun because the aim of M36 jacksons changes have always been survivability in exchange of firepower, and now you want to reduce its survivability but no words about firepower. |
Great post. Fantastic discussion. Can you please follow up with a "no u"
What discussion? You're ranting about the M36 and base your rant on false information. You've been here enough time to know what were the M36 values before its revamp and now so I can't imagine anything else than obvious lies to enforce your argumentation.
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Like good vision, high speed, great accuracy, great acceleration, fantastic accuracy on the move... I'm not saying the Jackson was perfect back then, I'm saying adding half again more health and not changing anything else is a shit way to balance a unit who's trademark was being a glass cannon. You can't just take away all of the risk and none of the perks that come with that risk
You should stop to lie. I mean, seriously. |
Ram in itself isn't necessarily OP, it's the combo with off-map that has no counter which is essentially a guaranteed heavy tank kill on most 2v2 maps that is the problem.
Sacrificing a 90 fuel tank for a 240+ fuel tank is generally a trade you want to make.
It doesn't stop Axis players to build heavy tanks every single game. Is it OP or simply frustrating to be outplayed on one move that can seal the game?
I don't know why Heavy tanks shouldn't share the same mechanism as any other unit in game. Because they are expensive? Well that is your problem if you lose such expensive unit like that.
Mines win game we all say, but mines are one of the cheapest artefact in game and we all seem fine with it. And in this particular case mines can save your heavy tanks from raming. |
Ok so then let's keep the Flame Hetzer dead just because it's somehow unbeatable on "urban" maps. Which maps qualify as urban by the way? Oh wait there are no "urban" maps in 1v1 and 2v2. You could argue Lierneux is somewhat urban but everyone has it in the veto list anyway.
Also I don't see how a Hetzer could be so OP in an urban setting when it's so vulnerable to getting flanked, snared and killed by a single ATG.
If you can't see how a strongly armored vehicle armed with a flamethrower can dominate a map with a lot of cover and houses, can't help.
As far as I played the game, Ostwind isn't that deadly once you are in cover or garrisoned.
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