Removing the T0 mortar would may actually force them to unlock it.
And give back smoke to rifles? |
True, although I cannot help but recall that the whole reason Ostheer has a t0 MG42 was because of the effect of officers hitting the field.
A minute sooner is not insignificant for establishing early game field presence. That and a 150mp captain squad by 60 fuel may revisit that initial pacing issue between USF and Ostheer. Time and testing will tell.
I feel like a 50 fuel captain with ATG/Pak Howie and a 'side-tech' for the Stuart, not AAHT, may work. At 20 fuel it would not change the pacing of the Stuart while allowing ATGs and Pak Howies a sooner field presence.
The LT could keep these proposed changes, but the 0.5 tech could unlock the AAHT and the M20. The proposed changes for the M20 are necessary for that unit regardless of teching adjustments.
This would grant faster officers, as is apparently so desired, and a cheaper way to go both LT and Captain without affecting the pacing of Major tier or any vehicle. The cost difference for both LT and Captain without any half-step teching would be 10 more fuel.
Which is already shaved off the cost of grenades.
At the moment, when USF first officer hit the field, Ostheer have more squads on the BF. I don't think the officer will arrive before Ostheer 4th gren in a 3xRM BO. If he hits the field sooner than that, that's mean there is one riflemen squad less, or 2xRE + 2xRM or 1xRE + 2xRM.
What is going to make the matchup Ostheer / USF more dynamic is the grenade fuel reduction cost + Lieutenant fuel reduction cost.
I also proposed different changes for USF but it seems Relic wants to keep free officers and bi-direction teching, fair enough if it works! |
Stuart now comes 10F cheaper. 50cal and M1 are great support teams now easily accessed. Riflemen are not being changed.
You need to be careful about these potential power spikes. You're cushioning USFs rough early game and not taking away any of their (absurd) power in the lategame. The jackson still dominates, the pershing is the best heavy in the game, HE sherman and scott are both very respectable.
ATG is 40 fuel cheaper if you decide to go Lt and there potentially one less riflemen squad to be build. Everything else is pretty much equal. Now I agree since Lvs are so terrible there isn't much appealing to unlock them but it isn't going to make USF any stronger than it is now. If USF doesn't have Lvs they're more subject to bleed.
I mean the only power spike change is the Lt/Cpt hitting the field 1 minute earlier but that's not a tremendous buff that's going to put USF above Ostheer or OKW, just at their level. |
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Oh and new M20 is great, need 4-5 kills to reach vet1 and deal much more damage, it isn't anymore a BennyHill backward race because pfaust are more a threat than its own dps. |
So, they just don't let the Lieutenant to have a BAR instantly, but after 30 seconds or how long the upgrade needs to be completed.
About 20 seconds maybe, On Angovile the BAR was available when the lieutenant reached the cutoff zone north coming from the north road.
@Jar, yes your are right, didn't thought about it. |
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I have been giving it a try and some early feedback.
About teching. There is a lot of possibilities I'll say, which is good:
- Lieutenant first seem to feet perfectly into 2xRE 2xRM + Lieutenant. I mean, there is no down time, you'll have the fuel right when you also have the manpower after the 2nd Riflesquad. 2x RE gives a lot of map control early game to bring the lieutenant really fast.
- 3xRM into lieutenant bring also interesting decision making. In fact you can wait a bit with 2xRM and call your lieutenant as 3rd unit but you'll be on inferiority until the lieutenant hit the field. Note that if you decide to build a 3rd RM after the lieutenant, he'll hit the field at the same time that the Lieutenant.
- 3xRM into lieutenant, you can also go the safe way and build your lieutenant after the 3rd RM.
About Lieutenant upgrade, the upgrade is available as soon as the lieutenant hit the field, 50 munition so it is a decision to take to upgrade it asap or wait to use the munition later.
About T1.5, available right when the lieutenant hit the field, 20 fuel. M20 is not far behind in fact and you'll have to considere if you want your early BAR on the lieutenant or skirt on the M20. Nice decision making option.
Fast HMG.50 will definitively be a good option to counter volks spam.
I don't know about having exchanged Stuart with M15 in this configuration you can have now HMG+M1 for 60 fuel. I think the only reason to go T2.5 would be for the pak howitzer. Hmg+Stuart is a really strong combo.
Obviously need more testing. |
Imo riflemen should become once more the best and more versatile (able to fight in many ranges) mainline infantry available before minute one, due to the USF faction design/limitations.
That would probably mean that infantries available in the same time frame from other faction will need to be toned down.
As mentioned above, the issue isn't being the best because as you already mentioned it, USF riflemen are already superior to volks and, on the other hand, need to have a certain balance with Pzgren and Obers.
The problem is more about timing and manpower available to outspam the USF on the early game disponible for OKW. |
Easy for you to say, he isn't attacking you on every single thread and being a douche towards you.
Me: "I think the case is A".
Esxile: "Omg you're a retard lol go fk yourself"
Anyone else: "I think the case is A"
Esxile: "I agree with your points"
Endured this dozens of times from this same guy, and me "acting that rude" is obviously in proportion to his behaviour towards me.
Lol, your solution is to make USF riflemen worst late game but still equal early game for cheaper price. Definitively not case A.
If you don't see the incoming issue USF would get vs Pzgren and Obers, can't help you more. |
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Entirely agree with you on those points. |
Didn't double check my calculations. Even counting the difference in utility (flame nades, and sandbags) and rack costs, to me, these numbers justify rifles costing 12% more. If you make rifles 260/26 as some have suggested, then ask yourself whether or not the utility that volks bring is actually equivalent to these combat advantages rifles have.
Don't forget to add SP and 100mp advantage making 4xvolks start basic vs USF. As I stated before Volks are just the tree that hides the forest of balance issues on this matchup.
Then sandbag completely mitigate the difference in dps at long range and flamnde the difference in dps at close range.
Honestly both abilities make early volks way too good vs vanilla riflemen.
Now i also know that removing those abilities would put OKW in jeopardy vs Soviet... |
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