Has anyone yet got the second last ?
http://imgur.com/a/c8aDZ
I wish i had this plate, but it must be rather rare.. |
T4 doesn't need a teching cost decrease.
Going T4 should be a risk, I don't see why Ostheer should be able to have all their tech unlocked every game when the soviets are locked out of half of their buildings in almost every game because of the tech costs, add to that that soviets t3 and t4 have completely different purposes and the problem is even bigger than not being able to go t4 for ostheer, after all I don't see anyone whining about the fact that some doctrines are mandatory for soviets to fill gaps left by their tech choice? (ie going T1 without guards).
The panther just needs better anti infantry at close range (given that it has 50 range), that's it.
/facepalm
And as you can see (if you took the time to read the topic, which i highly doubt), it is a risk nobody is willing to take. In life, taking a risk should (at least sometimes) bring some kind of reward. Wehr T4 is, simply put, not worth it. But you seem to think every goddamn Wehr doctrine is playable, and the faction is not trapped in some kind of "mandatory doctrine", like you claim the Soviets are.
I won't discuss the soviet end of the matter, since this is a topic about Wehr T4, and i don't have a clue about soviet balance, at least i'm honest.
If you think Wehr T4 is fine as it is, when everyone agrees that it is completely useless (and nobody uses it, which further prove the issue), can you at least bring solid arguments backing your claim ? I guess you can't, and i guess you don't play Wehrmacht neither. |
OKW Panther has, in no particular order:
30% smaller scatter penalty on the move (1.7 vs 2 multiplication)
30% smaller accuracy penalty on the move (0.65 vs 0.5 multiplication)
up to 40% higher accuracy when standing still (0.035 vs 0.025 far)
25% higher dps on hull MG (8.1 vs 6.4)
plus it has higher vet bonuses and more of them. But those are the base stat differences.
Thanks a lot for bringing clear numbers to what i was saying  |
Panzerwerfer wasn't seen much before the katyusha was buffed, so why would it see more use if katyusha is nerfed? I don't get that.
Panzerwerfer is a perfectly legit arty in team games, but it is vastly overshadowed by current Katyusha (well, it would probably be worth being built in 1v1 if whole T4 teching costs were revised, i don't know).
Are the OKW and Osteer Panthers not the exact same (except for vet bonus)? I could be wrong but........
Overall the panther needs a buff, this "its dedicated anti-tank role" is just not being fulfilled, it was nerfed while all Russian armor was buffed, hence its current state. I would increase its fire rate and give it a slight armor increase, but keep everything else as is, at V2 is can be a beast even now.
As for the brumbar I just dont use it so no ideas there! The pwefer is so underrated! The only thing holding this unit back is the teching cost to get it, its barrage is highly effective vs infantry and support teams. Comparing it to the current state of the Kat though, yes it looks UP but that is only due to that fact that the Kat is way too OP!
From what i heard, since i don't look into ingame stats by myself, the OKW Panther has a better moving and standing accuracy. And no, it is not a 5% difference, more along the lines of 30% for both stats. And to be honest, playing both factions, everytime i got an OKW Panther out, it performed way better than the Wehr one, and i didn't know about the accuracy difference at the time, so it's not a placebo effect. If someone more versed into the stats aspect can confirm what i am saying, it would be cool 
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Probably buff Panther to be as good as Oberkommando Panther (while keeping its current cost, which Wehrmacht can afford quite easily), and reduce the manpower costs of Wehrmacht battle phases, as they are currently over the top (you have to pay the price of a PIV to tech from tier 3 to tier 4 + make the T4 building, which isn't appealing at all, considering the performances of the units it unlocks).
I won't comment on the Brummbar as i mostly never used it.
It seems that the Panzerwerfer could use a little love as well, nobody needs another Katyusha balance error as it is now, but if Katyusha is nerfed, then Panzerwerfer would see more play.
Wehrmacht is a good faction overall, it needs some costs adjustments, and have it's T4 mainbattle tank be actually useful.
My 2 cents. |
Hello you know me from topics like "What is up with the 203mm B4" and "What is up with the Panther"
I played I think 10 Games in the last days and ever I am suprised how op some units are.
I will list now some interesting german units.
First: The Stuka zu Fuß!! What is up with this rocketlauncher ??? You know the Ami consists of Infantery. And this Stucka ( After 10 min on battlefield) is like an offmap 200mm arty strike. No joke. I know the Katyusha is op too, but this Stuka is twice stronger. In every game you meet this "superblaster". The russian is able to counter the stuka but the Ami ? How can the Ami counter this very mobile "superblastergocart in the early 20 min? Forgot the Bazooka, this "superblastergocart" is ever covered and if it isn´t it is fast enought to escape.
But this is okey if there werent some more interesting german units.
So for example the "Puma"
The Puma isn´t op !! But he is already at min 6:30 on the battlefield. What is this ?? wy so early?
At this time the Ami is able to organise some Bazookas but if you do this your inf. isnt able to counter Okws inf, because without an B A R you have no chance to do that. And the Puma will rape your abulance car or M5 flack truck in 10 sec.
The next interesting german units " the Kübelwagen in consideration to the heroic pioneers"
I have 3 shooter squads and there is one Kübelwagen and in 6 sec. the shooters are pinned. WTF ??? And when the Okw builds 2 sturmpioneers you are lost. One pio squad repairs the Kübelwagen and the other one Kills the pinned shooters (and all this is min 2). Generally those Okw pios are soooo heavy ... wy ?? In short and medium distance you cant beat them with an shooter unit and on long distance the shooters are useless. And if you try it the pios run into your cover and crush your shooters... where as the ami pioneers can´t hold there own weapons ...
Last but not least What the fuck is up with this infrared car and Stg 44 with infrared scanner ???? Who listened there to hitlers dreams in 1945 ???? Are you sick relict ?? . So if we bring fanfiction into the game okeyyy but where is the Ami infrared M5 halftrack ??? Or maybe we get an Atomic bomb. No, realy, where is the fairness in this concept ?? The infrared scanner finds your inf. position and the Stuka kills them all what is this ??? Maybe the germans get an Horten stealth bomber as an doktrin xDDD And this Sector arty wy she can bomb allied areas ??? What is this ???
This is simply not fair .There is an reason wy 80 % plays the Axis ...
Re-read your OP, you seriously are rather ultra eager to prove the world that you are right from the get go, hence all the shitstorm ensuing.
Oh and, for your own culture, this is what google brought using "infrared world war 2" keywords:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zielger%C3%A4t_1229 |
Maybe you stop diffaming me and come up with arguments? I reported you due to flaming and diffaming me here! So I'll do with any other user trying to crash this thread or insult me. If you don't like my opinion it's your problem.
The point I want to make is that the Ostheer player can easily know what will come if the Sovjet player uses Guards or 120mm for example. They can actually prepare for incoming T 34 / 85 and build PaK's, lay mines or build their really good P4. It's off reality if you try to tell me the T34 beats the P4 in a 1 on 1 if both players don't derp around and actually know what they do. So I agree with Katitof here.
All right go on, but next time you post bullshit like "Panther is strong enough", please think twice about Axis players's reactions. TY. I'm not angry or mad, i'm just bored to report you every time i see blatant flamebait. The discussion is about Medium armor comparatively to each other, and my last point was that nothing could be changed in the Allies Armor department, rather just bring Wehr Panther on par with Oberkommando Panther. Then you replied that Axis tanks were good enough as is, which is commonly accepted in the community as a wrong point. I do think Panzer4 is a perfectly balanced tank right now, but Panther strength/cost and Tier4 requirements are both a bad joke for Wehrmacht atm. I think it is hard to deny that. |
I've got an idea.
Mirror its AoE and scatter to that of a panther.
Change nothing more.
No more "just an upgrade over normal sherman" but rather durable "tank hunter" akin to panther.
lol, i see what you did there |
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I think the major issue there, as already stated, is that Werhmacht Panther is weaker than Oberkommando Panther, while still being costlier to reach (tech wise). That means that its allies counterpart, ez8 and t34/85, are getting out of hands.
Probably just mirror Panther's stats across the two axis factions, and reduce a bit the tech costs for Wehrmacht (would also help if other T4 units were brought in line with their allies counterparts, namely Panzerwerfer, and Brummbär).
I think the allied tanks are right where they should be, but Wehr T4 is significantly underperforming, which creates the illusion of imbalance.
Oberkommando seems rather balanced right now, except maybe a few OP abilities or doctrinal units. Still, i would like to know if oberkommando players feel the E8 and T34/85 are too hard to handle. Which would surprise me, as i think it is mostly Wehr players feeling that way. |
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I don't know what puzzles me the most: people actually whining for what seems a hotfix to changes that slipped into release patch accidentaly (which are probably values that are being worked at the moment in the dev team, should give a strong hint at what they are aiming to do in the near future), or the trolls, or the people that actually feed the troll instead of hitting the report button.
To the admins, please add one option to the report reasons: "flamebait". This is usually punished on most of the forums i usually wander in, i think it should be punished there also. |
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