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Anyone else a little disappointed the OKW didn't get any new skins with the Ardenes Assault campaign like the US did?
Played the game as OKW for like 400 hours, in multiplayer, and so far have only unlocked 1 medium skin and like 5 of the same light skin for my OKW forces.
So this is a bit of a groan about the crappy drop system but more just wanting to maybe insert the idea into peoples heads that maybe the new AA campaign should of come with OKW skins too? As i did see new skins on some of the OKW units in the campaign. |
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End of the day all you can do is keep playing together and practice. Its ok to have a firm build and "battle plan", but every game presents different situations and will eventually boil down to your micro, unit-preservation and teamwork and ability to predict and adapt to these situations. The more you play the more you will learn. |
Besides those points to Hans I have to say I almost completely disagree with OP. 3/4 of the posted things are outright wrong or problematic. Since OP did not put the time into actually researching a lot of the prices or designs of the unit I don't see a reason to argue.
I didn't get any of the prices wrong? o.O at least not that im aware. if i did point em out for me so i can correct them  .
And for all the Bias accusations...
You're not gonna get an unbias balance post... on an unbalanced game.
Personal bias however, everyone who knows me knows i play all factions equally...
Most people dont want to see a faction nerfed unless something in the other faction is nerfed too... this isnt how you achieve game balance, this is how you only shift the Meta. |
I love how everyone becomes a balance/design expert on the forums and has the ultimate balance idea.
+1 Cruzz. Guys; he is the man who knows who to play the game and knows what he's talking about, you should listen to him.
People said something similar about nearly every dictator in history.
Nobody should be unchallenged when others believe him wrong. Welcome to democracy and debate. |
Just gonna touch on stuff I definitely disagree with...
Cool double nerf to make sure there is no reason whatsoever to ever go for this if you have teched.
Same cost as the single call in for advanced warefare... P4 costs 130 fuel and has nearly 200 less HP and worse scatter. and requires teching.
And why is it a problem that it's used as "an LMG team"?
because its a HMG team...
Old armor back on top of the 15% and 20MP lower cost they have is overkill.
yeah id prob remove the 15% avoidance. ill include that in the OP
Already does fine against USA even if he's dead in a split second in the open.
And you dont see that as a slight issue?
Most stupidest suggestion of the week. Absolutely and totally unneeded and would fuck up balance in so many ways.
Currently it is the same cost as a T34/85 in guard motor doctrine. Has less health, more scatter, less penetration and requires teching costs... AND comes with marked target. If the T34/85 got some slight health nerfs or cost increase it wouldnt be needed to buff the P4.
They have a ton of advantages in exchange for the signposts. Retreating units do not care about signposts. Also their build speed needs to be nerfed even though you obviously would not say it.
If the signposts went, then yeah build speed should go back to how it was before. agreed.
http://www.twitch.tv/vonivan/b/543339356?t=58m15s
Sec ill go make a vid where a maxim instantly suppresses a gren squad that was flanking it, and an MG42 who cannot suppress a con squad running at it within its arc of fire before being molotoved.
What has the M15 AA HT have to do with flamer? And why do you need the flamerht against fighting positions when they die to pretty much anything? We do not need the old "everyone rushes flameht" meta back.
I wasnt pitting the units vs eachother... they both have the same "prime time" so to speak. yet one comes far too late. while the other comes abit too early.
Unlike implied, this is still very much an issue with all triggered abilities that launch some kind of projectile. They can be cancelled before projectile but after money has been taken.
Ive seen it happen with US nades, and i think once with a shock nade. but not nearly as often as with grens (prob because they have a longer activation time).
Has 100% same accuracy as PaK40
Except if theres a twig in the way, it will hit that instead. Paks can shoot over/thro fences... this raketen werfer gets interrupted if a flea flys between the gun and the target.
The US one is the one that needs a nerf. The OKW one definitely does not need a buff once the M15 has been dealt with.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Volks are too ineffective, and Kubel waggons too flimsy for 240mp.
L2P. There are reasons why Puma is more or less the most commonly seen OKW vehicle right now, and it ain't because it sucks.
yeah that didnt work out too well for Jesulin vs Luvnest the other day. Guess go tell him to L2p too? the reason the Puma is seen so much is because its the only decent counter to the AA-HT that can be on the field fast enough before you lose everything to that AA halftrack
Because what we really need is an extremely rushable anti-everything vehicle.
If you copypasted stats from SU85 over to this one, you'd lose 90 frontal armor and would miss more against all vehicles in exchange for 20% faster firing. Those are pretty much all the stats differences between the two (really minor speed differences and scatter values).
Used a JP4 yesterday, it missed 5/10 shots and bounced 4/5 of those... its crap.
Don't build where you're going to get destroyed. Losing trucks has almost no punishing effect to it as it is.
if you class 40/40/80 fuel for OKW (60/60/110 normal fuel) as not punishing, for an AA HT to flank and wipe out in 2 bursts while it unpacks as not punishing then i dont know what is.
It already has absolutely pathetic AT, even losing to a Stug E. How much worse do you want it?
Took 20% HP off the front of a panther yesterday, upon watching that i was like o.O didnt check the actual stats tho on that unit ill admit. never had an issue killing med tanks with it tho.
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Sure, in addition to all that:
Soviets:
-SU-85 armor increase from 140 to 180. Penetration increase from 190 to 200. Hold fire makes a return. This unit is under performing now due to the changes in Heavy Armor and new units that WFA has brought to the game.
Good idea, added.
-T70 cost reduction from 70 Fuel to 50. This unit is under performing when compared to other light armor from all other factions. Easily counterable at start game with OKW anti-tank rocket launcher.
Agreed, added.
- 120MM Mortar cost reduction from 400 MP to 300 MP. This unit has been under performing since the series of nerfs and is too expensive.
Agreed again, added.
- Shocktroops returned to 1 CP. This change is required due to OKW getting PGren Lites at 0 CP.
Disagree, Sturm pio's are strong but are very squshy. rifle men drop them in the open fairly easily. Also you have to concider what effect this would have vs the wehrmacht, which dont really have anything at T1 to answer this with.
OKW:
- Fallschirmjager can no longer spawn in buildings without line of sight. This is to reflect their in-game performance. Lower risk than paratroopers as of current.
Para's are 6 men squads and can also drop anywhere. + can be upgraded with LMG's and use Satchels ect.
- Obersoldaten re-enforce cost increased to 70 MP. This is to reflect their in-game performance (better than a Soviet sniper which is 75 to re-enforce).
These guys just need an accuracy nerf at long range, but not too much, since volks are currently useless. these are the only decent non-doctrinal infantry.
Wehrmacht:
- Blitz (50% speed bonus now) decreases accuracy by 50% when activated and 10% bonus to incoming damage. This should not be a get out a jail free card.
agreed, not sure about the 10% bonus damage. but the accuracy makes sense only while they move. |
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thx for the suggestions ill update it |
Not a nerf on Obersoldaten? really?
I think Obersoldaten (nor any unit) should not be as effective long range as it is right now.
Ok Ok... its expensive
Ok Ok.. 50 mp to reinforce and long reinf time.
But setting them into a green cover you need 3 squads to assault it, and by the time you reach the distance to launch a grenade, you had to retreat 2 squads because of damage received.
Your summary may be: Allies: Nerf Nerf Nerf. Axis: Buff Buff Buff
Id be more than happy to see a nerf to Obersoldaten if volks were more potent/effective at fighting an american rifleman spam.
Currently... Falshims and Obersoldaten are then only thing gonna save you from 5 rifle squads + the 2 free officer squads at the 10 min marker. |
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So after playing the game nearly non-stop since WF launched. These are the balance conclusions ive drawn...
Soviets:
Balance:
ISU-152 - still needs a nerf in how effective its weapon is.... the previous AOE nerf in the last patch hasnt really effected this things ability to kill squads accurately at all... Either nerf its AI or its AT.... in a game like this no unit should hard counter everything like this unit does.
120mm mortar - Cost reduced from 400mp to 300mp to reflect its battlefield impact.
-T70 cost reduction from 70 Fuel to 50. This unit is under performing when compared to other light armor from all other factions. Easily counterable at start game with OKW anti-tank rocket launcher.
SU85 front armor increase and penetration increase (to counter the heavier stuff)
T34/85 - Double call in needs price putting to 800MP and 280fuel. and a slight hp decrease.
Maxim - needs a slightly slower setup time (so you can flank it) and needs to have a little less suppression as it is currently. This unit is still easily used as an LMG team.
Fixes: None
Wehrmacht:
Balance:
Pgrens - need their armor back. The recent 15% reduced chance of been hit was ok, but still didnt really change much. These units still underperform for their cost.
Sniper - needs 1.5 armor. now more than ever since USF infantry is way more accurate and usually has some sort of LMG.
Blitz -(50% speed bonus now) decreases accuracy by 50% when activated and 10% bonus to incoming damage. This should not be a get out a jail free card.
P4 - needs a slight HP increase to match the T34/85. (especially when these units cost the same yet the T34/85 totally overpowers the P4).
S mines - Needs signposts removing. These are currently the only faction with useless AI mines unless the enemy player is blind.
HMG42 - Needs faster suppression.
FHT - needs moving back to T2 not T3. (yknow since the Americans can get fighting positions and quadcannon M5's at T2).
Fixes:
Rifle nade needs to be refunded ammo when not fired or cancled (like the molotov is) currently it costs you the ammo, costs you the cooldown and doesn't fire. Sometimes this happens without it even been canceled.
OKW:
Balance:
Kubel - Wagon needs either a price decrease to 180mp or a HP and armor increase. Currently this unit isnt useless.... however its a HUGE liability and usually dies before paying even half its cost back to light arms fire or a single bazooka shot. 240mp is just too much to lose in 1 shot or 1 burst of fire.
Volks Grenadiers - Need to be slightly better, suggested improvement would be an LMG upgrade for 60 ammo. OR give them the same MP40 upgrade from the first game.
Rakentenwerfer - too inaccurate.
Flackhalftrack - Needs a faster setup time (yknow since the USF one comes at the same time, doesn't have a setup time and can destroy the german flacktrack twice over in a duel). Thats not even including the germans flacktrack setup time.
Puma - too expensive for how effective it is.... currently the puma costs 70 fuel (that's 100 normal fuel since this is OKW) and it really just doesn't perform as a 100 fuel unit when you compare it to the versatility of the T34/76 and the Sherman. It works as a good sniper, but is too easily countered for its cost.
Jagdpanzer4 - This really needs replacing with an assault gun.... but as it stands, it needs an AP buff.... since it struggles to penetrate lots of front shots... when this units only dedicated task is killing tanks (and it is utterly useless vs anything else) then it should at least fulfill its roll effectively. Should just copy and paste the stats of the SU85 over.
Sturmofficer - needs vet ranks
Fixes:
Canceling construction of a fwd HQ - should refund the resources (it will still stall players teching by 3 mins) but i dont think they should be punished so heavily for having a building HQ destroyed before it is completed.
Raketenwerfer crew is prone to getting stuck on terrain.
Medium tank skins does not apply to the panther, (which is their med tank image) yet it does apply to the Sturmtiger (which is obviously a heavy tank).
United States Forces:
Balance:
Rear echalon suppress ability needs a price increase to 40 or a massive potency nerf. Currently this is a force retreat for only 20 ammo. Either factor its potency into its range (e.g close rank 100% effective, Med range 50% effective, long range 25% effective) or put it to 40 ammo to stop this dumb guaranteed map control unit.
Anti-air halftrack - Needs a dps reduction. This thing can blow up its OKW counterpart before it has even setup. It should be a close fight, not a total steamroll.
Officer squads - Should not come with heavy weapons... Not only does the USF get a free squad when teching (costing 200mp and 50/60/90 fuel) but they also get a free squad.... the captian arrives with 120ammo worth of bazookas and the LT arrives with a 60ammo BAR. This should not be the case... it carries the USF from a decent rifle spam (which i do think is balanced) to totally overwhelming the germans forces with heavy weapon teams just by teching... This forces the OKW to go Luftwaffer tactics nearly every game in 1v1's since they have no decent infantry capable of dealing with this heavy weapon armed horde of Americans until Obesoldarten. The MG36 and the Falshims are just too important as it stands.
Sherman 105 dozer... needs slightly weaker AT, something that can 1 shot squads so often shouldn't be so effective vs tanks.... thats what the M10 is for.
Fixes: Rapid fire does not apply to bazookas.
Thanks for reading, feel free to comment constructively. I will add to these lists if anyone throws up any decent arguments about other changes.
Cheers. |
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Ostheer have an issue with fighting the USF, especially vs lots of riflemen, however StugE's and MG42's do pack quite a punch too...
As OKW though you shouldn't really have any issue vs a rifle blob. Walking Stukka, Sturmtiger, FlackHT, Oberstoldarten, Falshims, Mg38's all do really well vs rifle blobs. |
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