I tried this today but was disappointed I couldn't change the direction of aim.
Well yea, its like putting an mg in it |
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My strat:
volks
kubel
volks
sturm pios
Medic HQ
That is the early build, adaption from here on out is key:
Reketenwerfer and panzershreck on volks if its vs US and you see lieutenant + 3 rifles with no upgrades
Fusilier commander unit if its captain first (you see upgrades or no lieutenant and 4 rifles)
Fusiliers
mech command truck: use fuel exchange if you think an early vehicle is coming out such as a stuart or T34. Munitions exchange if you are playing against Sovs and see T1+T2 play (you have time to build munitions before tanks arrive)
From here its a late game which I cannot really for certain say what my build is, I might have to replace a sturm pio unit or need another reketenwerfer, Maybe even a stuka fuss. |
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Hey guys I do not have this commander but I have a cool idea I have never seen anyone do. So you know how the reketenwerfer can garrison buildings right? well how bout having your volks grens throw down a bunker in a favorable location (like maybe to protect your flack hq building) and throwing a little AT gun in it? Use the reinforced barbed wire to constrict angles of attack so it is difficult to flank or drive around. |
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If you play the ToW your ostheer or soviet load out gets reset which never used to happen because there was a separate category for ToW. |
This blob nade is the reason why I love the OKW Command Panther doctrine atm.
Very good to clear out enemy building or deal against heavy blob ( You should try to hide first to create suprise - I found it works well in Semoisky and some 2vs2 maps ).
The cool down time never was a problem to me and I find that ability always available for at least 1 or 2 units on the field for me. Usually on the field I have at least 4 to 5 units can use that ability ( 2 Volksgrenadiers, 2 or 3 Obers ).
The ability restricted to Volksgrenadier, Ober and the unit come from Scavenger Doctrine only. But that's good because it makes the Volks squad worth using at late game rather than just a Panzersherck carry unit.
I disagreed that Sturmpioneers should be able to use this infiltration grenades. Reason ?
- This is a start unit with heavy firepower.
- Can repair vehicles fast, able to scan for mines but still able to switch back to 4 MP44 gun.
- Can drop Medical Supplies fast on the field for other units to heal ( Not fully but good enough to stay back on the field )
- can make wire to stop Light Vehicles + mines.
So er yeah, this unit is fine as it is. The stun grenade is not my favorite because it cost too much and AOE is kinda small ( Just like the one come from Elite doctrine ). You better retreat than using that grenade.
Its clearly viable, the problem is because the cool down starts even before you unlock them and it picks up where it leaves off. See it has a draw back which is easily avoidable through cycling which unit throws their grenades next. The infiltration grenades need to be at least 30 munitions because a regular grenade cost that much. On top of that, the assault grens have similar grenades, and theirs cost 45 munitions. |
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The unfortunate reality is that with the release of WFA the already problematic unclear role of penals and conscripts which lead to spam only got exaggerated against OKW. You pretty much need Guards or shocks to really help deal with OKW infantry because beyond volks you will just get bled by cons and penals inability to do well. Like Napalm pointed out, this leads to the forced hand of cheese unit comps such as maxim spam or sniper/ M3 heavy use. It is not unlike 2 months after this games release where Soviet weapons teams were all nerfed into the ground and mg42s insta pinned forcing players to abuse snipers and clown cars to even get pasted the early game only to be forced into SU-85 spam because the T34s (both) were absolutely terrible. |
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I'm glad you brought this up, but I will completely bring this discussion to the other side:
These grenades should have a price increase to 30 munitions, You almost have the CD up by the time you finish de capping and re capping a fuel or munitions point. The timer does not reset (maybe you had a bug) and units that spawn before 3CP already start their cool downs meaning that when you reach 3 CPs you have infiltration grenades available to the number of volks grens you have.
There is no reason to get more grenades for less munitions. They are similar to assault grens grenades which cost 45 munitions.
One more thing to consider: How often do you use grenades? many times they can be dodged and with the economy disadvantage many OKW players only use them sparingly. My point is that the time between grenade usage is usually close to the infiltration CD when you trade off which unit is doing it spreading out when the ability is up. This means you are consistently saving 20 munitions for more which is pretty goofy. |
I think it's pretty clear Maxims need a nerf of some sort, dunno how anyone could disagree with him on that.
I dont think any one is disagreeing with him so far |
True, but Vet Rifles / M3 / WC51 can do the same, it's just part of the game. You're still sinking more into those Grenadiers than you would if you had your own T1 Scout Cars.
But the Jackson has a huge range advantage as well, if exploited properly the Panzer IV shouldn't get close. The Jackson should be supported as well since it lacks AI abilities.
while I would never use troop training early vs USF, that gren squad will win 2v1 fights against Soviet stuff. The only time it could back fire is if a sniper was out early.
As for the Jackson, SU-85 also out ranges quite a few tanks, Does that mean it never gets flanked or killed? P4s can get close on many of the maps due to lay out or true line of sight. My point is while the Jackson is a great TD, it is hard to keep hold of your advantages late game vs Ostheer or OKW, and I think the main problem is their tanks. This is also assuming some of the early game of US gets toned down. |
I think it's fine, you invest a lot to get that veterancy.
They cost the same, and the Jackson is supposed to stay out of the range of the Panzer IV. You're either using the Jackson wrong, or you got ambushed or flanked.
Light tanks, yeah. Mostly the T-70, the M5 can defeat it easily with it's stun ability. In a slug-fest, it'll likely lose to a T-34/76 or Sherman unless you left HE rounds on.
I think everyone thinks it's bad because it can't hunt tanks like the SU-85 can.
Luchas are Mexican, Luchs is German 
Also, you cannot place that truck first, so the Luchs is deployed much later than any other light vehicle, which is a shame because I feel OKW could seriously benefit from the Luchs.
Something it seems everyone forgets about using the troops training early is that you use the vet three squad to force engagements at their cutoff and fuel. It is such a lobsided fight you can deprive your opponent of the fuel it took to vet that squad in a minute or so, plus all the man power drain it takes to just retreat the vet three squad. THAT is why it is unfair. Most players simply think that it severely hampers your tech path but in reality when you use it correctly you do far more damage to the opponent than it took to get the Vet three.
As for the jagdP4 its a little slower and has poor sight at the cost of being much more effective at killing tanks. It lacks a little rate in fire but scales incredibly well.
While it seems I was wrong about the price comparing the P4 and Jackson, the fight is still a slug fest. Can the Jackson Kite? yea, But SU-85s can also kite but they get flanked. My point is that a main battle tank is almost as good as the Tank destroyer at a large cost making it difficult for US to compete late game. |
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Vermillion_Hawk
Relic Entertainment
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