Grens UP & G43s suck

That's a personal preference, not a balance issue.


That tells us you don't play on competitive level, where balance matters, because you'd have to be mad fast with mouse not to use hotkeys.


That's not really relevant.


It only says you're around long, not if you're good or bad.
There are plenty of people who have literally tousands of multiplayer games and are still considered noobs.


Well, you're not good, but there certainly are players much worse then you.
I actually expected much, much worse from what you've written so far.
But that's rank way below meta, anything goes there.


Enough to not pretend that faction with strongest, earliest and most cost efficient support units needs mainline infantry that can stand up to much more expensive counterparts.

Tell me your rank, please.

I play for fun, not for ranks. I don't care what my rank is. If I cared I would have different accounts to practise (like some players). I've just played all my matches on this one account and sometimes like being lower cause playing is easier. I like learning and experimenting, so trust me that I could be much higher if I stuck to meta and played one faction.

To the point - give grens sandbags because they are not up - it would be so much cooler to play agions ostheer

Yes - give sandbags to cons/sections/grens OR remove them from those squads and give them to engies instead.

I watched this thread and see many one mention that Tommy should lose sandbags but no one seem to consider why Tommy must have sandbags.

Post patch, Tommy depend on cover more than ever and since UKF engineer is in T2, Tommy have to built cover for themselves, or theirs early game is fucked.

I watched this thread and see many one mention that Tommy should lose sandbags but no one seem to consider why Tommy must have sandbags.

Post patch, Tommy depend on cover more than ever and since UKF engineer is in T2, Tommy have to built cover for themselves, or theirs early game is fucked.

Just like grens besically. They've been fucked for a while long now.

Just like grens besically. They've been fucked for a while long now.

the different is OST have pio in T0 so gren can have green cover from minute 0. If you wan to take sandbags away from tommy, you have to give it to royal engineer and put them in T1 alongside tommy.

the different is OST have pio in T0 so gren can have green cover from minute 0. If you wan to take sandbags away from tommy, you have to give it to royal engineer and put them in T1 alongside tommy.

Exactly. Only engineer units should build cover. Or... gren too. Pioneers are most hard working engineer squad in game btw.

Tell me your rank, please.

I play for fun, not for ranks. I don't care what my rank is. If I cared I would have different accounts to practise (like some players). I've just played all my matches on this one account and sometimes like being lower cause playing is easier. I like learning and experimenting, so trust me that I could be much higher if I stuck to meta and played one faction.

To the point - give grens sandbags because they are not up - it would be so much cooler to play agions ostheer

after checking his playercard I can confirm that he hasn't played a single match in at least 4 weeks (which means that he only has hidden ranks)

Exactly. Only engineer units should build cover. Or... gren too. Pioneers are most hard working engineer squad in game btw.

Some mainline it makes sense to be able to build cover. Cons for example are meant to be utility units that hold the line. Cover makes sense there. Same with Tommies whom have worse stats when not in cover and horrible moving stats and no sappers until tech. They are static infantry so it makes the utmost sense for them to be always able to fight from cover.

Ost on the other hand is as combined arms as it gets. You should always have pios on hand and it's always worth having pios on hand. There is no real reason for grens to build their own cover tbh and if it's on grens then what happens if you plan to go ass grens? No sandbags for your mgs? No. It doesn't make sense.

Some mainline it makes sense to be able to build cover. Cons for example are meant to be utility units that hold the line. Cover makes sense there. Same with Tommies whom have worse stats when not in cover and horrible moving stats and no sappers until tech. They are static infantry so it makes the utmost sense for them to be always able to fight from cover.

Ost on the other hand is as combined arms as it gets. You should always have pios on hand and it's always worth having pios on hand. There is no real reason for grens to build their own cover tbh and if it's on grens then what happens if you plan to go ass grens? No sandbags for your mgs? No. It doesn't make sense.

Imo Tommie should not be able to build cover or trenches and that was part of the problem with them because in most cases they where fighting from heavy cover.

Actually imo mainline infatry should not be able to built cover or do it very slow speed. I guess one could make an exception for Conscripts but they should lose the ability when upgunned
(SVT/PPsh) or with 7 entities.

after checking his playercard I can confirm that he hasn't played a single match in at least 4 weeks (which means that he only has hidden ranks)

Who did you check? My ranks are visible.

Who did you check? My ranks are visible.

katitof

katitof

Oh How do you do that. I do it only through in game interface. Is it possible to do it differently?

Imo Tommie should not be able to build cover or trenches and that was part of the problem with them because in most cases they where fighting from heavy cover.

Actually imo mainline infantry should not be able to built cover or do it very slow speed. I guess one could make an exception for Conscripts but they should lose the ability when upgunned
(SVT/PPsh) or with 7 entities.

Removing sandbags from volks and sections is a good thing imo. Both are quite efffective earlier on and one is spammable as hell. I dont play brits a lot but trenches should still be available to sections. Remove salvage from sturms and give sandbags instead, i hardly see salvage used on them. Volks also have salvage so why is it on both?

I think cons can keep their sandbags even after their upgrade. Soviets dont get a normal or stun nade without doctrines. or have trenches/bunkers and have the least healing and smoke options. Cons also either require quite a lot of investment or doctrines to just become more then a support unit. Imo they are too cost ineffective to loose the sandbags.

Just my 2cents.

Removing sandbags from volks and sections is a good thing imo. Both are quite efffective earlier on and one is spammable as hell. I dont play brits a lot but trenches should still be available to sections. Remove salvage from sturms and give sandbags instead, i hardly see salvage used on them. Volks also have salvage so why is it on both?

I think cons can keep their sandbags even after their upgrade. Soviets dont get a normal or stun nade without doctrines. or have trenches/bunkers and have the least healing and smoke options. Cons also either require quite a lot of investment or doctrines to just become more then a support unit. Imo they are too cost ineffective to loose the sandbags.

Just my 2cents.

You didn’t mention riflemen. So volks, a defensive infantry unit whose kar98s have no moving accuracy shouldn’t defend itself from rifles and their far superior close range dps with sandbags, but on the other hand rifles should also win long range engagements by abusing sandbags.

You didn’t mention riflemen. So volks, a defensive infantry unit whose kar98s have no moving accuracy shouldn’t defend itself from rifles and their far superior close range dps with sandbags, but on the other hand rifles should also win long range engagements by abusing sandbags.

Rifleman don't have sandbags stock, only with doctrine

Rifleman don't have sandbags stock, only with doctrine

He still has to consider it with how meta Heavy cav is in 1v1 and how meta Infantry company is in teamgames. Sandbags are meta, not on some obscure commander nobody plays.

He still has to consider it with how meta Heavy cav is in 1v1 and how meta Infantry company is in teamgames. Sandbags are meta, not on some obscure commander nobody plays.

No one said it's on an obscure Commander. But it's still not the same as having it no matter which one you chose

No one said it's on an obscure Commander. But it's still not the same as having it no matter which one you chose

Once again, the original post talked about removing sandbags from Volks. I said Riflemen need to be taken into consideration since:
A) Volks need sandbags to be able to contest riflemen closing the distance, otherwise it's too one-sided.
B) Rifles get sandbags in more than one meta commander, so their ability to make them needs to be included in the original post about removing sandbags from mainlines, since it's not obscure but actually a frequent sight.

You never contested either of the two actual points I made, please stop arguing pointless details.

Some mainline it makes sense to be able to build cover. Cons for example are meant to be utility units that hold the line. Cover makes sense there. Same with Tommies whom have worse stats when not in cover and horrible moving stats and no sappers until tech. They are static infantry so it makes the utmost sense for them to be always able to fight from cover.

Ost on the other hand is as combined arms as it gets. You should always have pios on hand and it's always worth having pios on hand. There is no real reason for grens to build their own cover tbh and if it's on grens then what happens if you plan to go ass grens? No sandbags for your mgs? No. It doesn't make sense.

I agree only to a point I'm afraid. What you wrote about sappers coming later for UKF makes perfect sense - tommies need cover. But they retain this funcionality throught the game. It is so much more convenient to use the unit that needs cover to build it itself. In real game situations it could be a gamechanger as sappers will be repairing vehicles, sweeping for mines, using ATs on tanks and won't need to help mainline infantry. This is the problem with grens and generally ost. They will need to stop repairing a tank to build sandbags for example. It is not fair and much more micro intensive. Think when you have 3 tommies. They will build their cover very quickly while their sappers will place mines. Ostheer will have to wait for three sandbags and the mine 4 times longer.

It should also be remembered that at some point in the game tommies will become 5 men and will still build cover (grens won't).

Grens are even more horrible on the move than tommies - trust me on that

I can't understand why you want ass gren to build cover - they don't normally need it. They are not a stationary unit. I don't see a problem here. Still you can always give this possibility to them.\\

I don't like tbh when everybody keeps repeating that ost is about combined arms as an excuse for making their units/abilities worse. Yes, it is about combined arms... ...but so are all other factions. This is actually the biggest logical mistake I keep reading here over and over again. At the beginning of the game ost has access to mgs and pios. After it builds the first structure you get grens, sniper and a mortar. This is when UKF ar SOV can field similar units. USF must wait a bit longer for their mgs. But it is just the beginning of a match. Very quickly from the match beginning all factions have all combined arms tools that are basically of similar quality. Yet, ostheer is probably the only faction that has to rely more on them as their core infantry is inferior. Their support weapons aren't any better.

A) Volks need sandbags to be able to contest riflemen closing the distance, otherwise it's too one-sided.

I disagree with this completely, especially since they get -10% recieved accuracy at vet 1. Not to mention they fight 2 other factions, we cannot just ignore how that effects them just cause Riflemen

B) Rifles get sandbags in more than one meta commander, so their ability to make them needs to be included in the original post about removing sandbags from mainlines, since it's not obscure but actually a frequent sight.

Okay but that doesn't give any reason as to why they should be removed. Again, I didn't say it was obscure

You never contested either of the two actual points I made, please stop arguing pointless details.

Because the thread is about grens, and we don't need to derail it anymore. Grens definitely don't need sandbags, so then what are we talking about here

I disagree with this completely, especially since they get -10% recieved accuracy at vet 1. Not to mention they fight 2 other factions, we cannot just ignore how that effects them just cause Riflemen



Okay but that doesn't give any reason as to why they should be removed. Again, I didn't say it was obscure



Because the thread is about grens, and we don't need to derail it anymore. Grens definitely don't need sandbags, so then what are we talking about here

The thread is about grens and there was a post about removing sandbags from other mainlines to benefit grens, I am not derailing anything, you’re the offtopic one with your personal vendetta. Please stop antagonising and stick to the topic.