Grens UP & G43s suck

I said the same man It is not the grens that need changes it is the G43 which in its current state is gimmicky.

No it's not. It's perfectly fine.

No it's not. It's perfectly fine.

No it's not. It's perfectly fine.

YE BUT Y NO 1CP THO ?

YE BUT Y NO 1CP THO ?

Imagine playing UKF or Soviets against 1 CP G43 Grens. It would be too OP, that's why. Simply make USF less powerful in early game and all the problems of G43 Grens go away.

TBH if soviets had access to early forward reinforcement, they would just overwhelm the map.

I'm avid M5 user and its really hard to push soviet off the field then its behind your infantry, only way for you to be forced away is overwhelming fire to bleed more then you can sustain.

Grens can be forced little bit easier with 251 therefore its earlier.

I definitely agree. My point has more to do that the usf has this amazing cheap heal and reinforce truck, yet so many people keep complaining about it.

I’d be happy to see the M5 get the 251 treatment and heal squads inside it.

I definitely agree. My point has more to do that the usf has this amazing cheap heal and reinforce truck, yet so many people keep complaining about it.

It's not that amazing either. It's nothing to complain about, but pretending it's amazing is just as disengenious. It's much slower than HTs and much more fragile, AND it needs to be standing still to provide support

It's amazing compared to other in-base healing, not because it can reinforce on the field

It's not that amazing either. It's nothing to complain about, but pretending it's amazing is just as disengenious. It's much slower than HTs and much more fragile, AND it needs to be standing still to provide support

It's amazing compared to other in-base healing, not because it can reinforce on the field

It’s amazing because 150mp and 15 fuel gives you healing and reinforcement anywhere you want.

Meanwhile as Soviets I have to pay 250mp for base healing and later at T3 I have to buy a useless 30 fuel unit for field reinforcement.

It’s amazing because 150mp and 15 fuel gives you healing and reinforcement anywhere you want.

This entire sentence is wrong. It's 250mp and 10 fuel, so you must not play much USF

And it's much worse at forward reinforcement than HTs are, for the reasons I just gave you

250 mp get your facts straight …. its actually the most expensive heal,

the best heal IMO is okw right now which is Opel blitz. But its fine since its doctrinal in a kind of meh commander

Grens are one of the oldest, most basic units in the game.

Practically a benchmark, any performance issues are because of other units not the grens.

1. They are less durable.
2. Remains to be seen but I don't think so (watch tightrope tests)
3. The scale much worse than tommies or US inf or even cons.
4. What about an abulance for US? These vehicles are very voulnerable and the tech required is similar to allied LV which are usually much more powerful.
5. They have Mgs only, can't equip at weapons and they are effective only in very limited circumstances (huge contrast here with other infantry).
6. Allies also have team weapons which are generally more effective against grens as they have to be static to shoot their weapons (they can't charge them). Those more powerful infantry squads can also rely on suppor weapons and if they do, they nightmare begins (a powerful infantry unit supported just like grens with support weapons by the allies creates imbalance as soon as allied players learn how to support their units).

But I agree that other infantry should be modelled on grens and nerfed.

1. True. So are allied tanks mostly. Your point?
3. Grens also require less investment then cons tommies and rifles.
4. Usf ambu cant fight only heal. Axis lights come earlier then allied lights. And stock axis armour is more powerfull and cost more then allied stock armour is mostly.
5. Grens have the support of more specialized team weapons wich is a big boost and shrecked pgrens are not to be ignored unlike most allied hand held at.
6. Grens have a rifle nade, an excelent tool to deal with or outright wipe team weapons. Cons rifles etc need to flank and get closer to wipe with nades. Just like pgrens.
Learn to support your grens with your t0 mg bunos vision of pio,s and halftrack, with pgrens wich come a lot earlier, use the buffed halftrack wich can become a flametrack. just for starters.

And not everything has to be nerfed to the suposed up units of axis. Axis should not be without weaknesses. Having something they dont excel at is not an imbalance.
Go play planetary anihalation if you want a 1 faction game.

Opponent would be punished for trying to engage in static warfare at medium range and would be forced to either advance to the short range or withdraw to gain more favourable engagement. This would finally make use of that dps on the move speciality as they could chase after the withdrawing units.

This has potential to being extremely op. It would end up like a long range flame thrower which was removed from both penals and rifles because anticover/garrison weapons on mainlines counters one of the most fundamental part of the game mechanics.

g43s are kinda meh to okay depending on the opposing faction but they dont need that large of a rework, moving it to 1 cp and making them 60 muni would be more than enough to make them strong again.

1. True. So are allied tanks mostly. Your point?

The discrepancy between grens utility and other mainline infantry is just too big in relation to cost. You're quoting my response to arguments suggesting that Infantry Sections are more or less similarly powerful to grens and suggestions that grens are too strong and similarly durable to other mainline infantry. My idea was to give them the ability to build sandbags.
Allied tanks are no longer as fragile as many players seem to suggest. Their cost more than reflects performance and the abilities they get. My perspective is simple - for the cost you have to pay for allied tanks they are superior to axis tanks (however controversial to some it will sound). That's part of grens problem - ostheer tanks used to be more powerful compared to allied counterparts and allowed for fragile 4 man infantry squads supporting them (some people on this forum suggest that better ostheer support weapons are supposed to make up for the weaker grens – that is simply wrong). The design was that the arrival of axis tanks used to more than make up for their fragile infantry - it's no longer true as tanks now are more or less similar between factions with sort of more mobility and range on allied side and slower and a bit more sturdy axis tanks (with exceptions).

3. Grens also require less investment then cons tommies and rifles.

They don't require less investments! To build grens you need to invest manpower and fuel into a building and waste some time building it with pios, which reduces your map presence. Conversely - you don't need to build any structure to buy rifleman, conscrips or infantry sections. They are larger squads with many upgrade possibilities and less vulnerable to snipers and random wipes. Very often they retain their full model squad status taking severe beating losing just health. They are usually quicker to heal and cheaper to reinforce. They are much more effective on the move, which is often crucial when facing indirect fire and support weapons. They simply scale much better!

4. Usf ambu cant fight only heal. Axis lights come earlier then allied lights. And stock axis armour is more powerfull and cost more then allied stock armour is mostly.

True with ambu – but is does two things – heals and reinforces quickly. Axis is mad up of two factions – OKW is a different story. Ostheer light vehicles are extremely vulnerable to small arms fire and bazookas. They are laughable in comparison to allies LV and very micro intensive, especially 222.

5. Grens have the support of more specialized team weapons wich is a big boost and shrecked pgrens are not to be ignored unlike most allied hand held at.

You are wrong here. Of course an expensive squad should not be ignored. The problem is that you should compare them to paras/rangers or bazooka rifles rather than to echelons. This is the problem of most allied players. They get a very cheap expendable infantry, equip them with bazookas, get 5th man free upgrade with vet, add a sweeper and don’t even realise that they get a potent at squad for very little. Ostheer must sacrifice an expensive anty infantry squad to get any anti tank capabilities. You don’t need to sacrifice your rifles for at support. I wish osheer could equip pios with a shreck – it would make it more even and you probably wouldn’t see shrecked pzgrens.

6. Grens have a rifle nade, an excelent tool to deal with or outright wipe team weapons. Cons rifles etc need to flank and get closer to wipe with nades. Just like pgrens.
Learn to support your grens with your t0 mg bunos vision of pio,s and halftrack, with pgrens wich come a lot earlier, use the buffed halftrack wich can become a flametrack. just for starters.

I know all about it – and trust me I just roll over such configurations with any allied army looking how easy it is for me to inflict serious bleed to ostheer just too easily. I lose against ostheer only when the opponent is much better than me and you can tell that from their much better micro.

And not everything has to be nerfed to the suposed up units of axis. Axis should not be without weaknesses. Having something they dont excel at is not an imbalance.
Go play planetary anihalation if you want a 1 faction game.

Of course not everything has to be nerfed. I only wanted grens sandbags......

If allies have it all so much better..... why don't you go and play allies?

You're just ullu 2.0 at this point.

I play allies - I'm just not a fanboy. I like when stuff is balanced. I find playing allies rewarding agains OKW. With ostheer it's no fun. Similarly skilled opponents lose and I don't need to use any special meta. Make them reposition backwards with fire/arty/anything indirest and wait - they won't be able to fight back.

Denial is You my friend I'm afraid. I'm a bit scared that not many people on the forum are persistent enough to discuss things with You. You just twist basic facts in my opinion.

Stuff is balanced.... and you're in denial.

If you want to play a faction that doesn't need to support their mainline infantry with support weapons and vehicles, play USF or OKW.

Also, what kind of level are you talking about?

Because 4 digit ranks hardly count for anything even if opponent is of similar "skill".
If you win without using meta, you're not playing at a level where balance matters.

I keep repeating that the game is balanced all the time – just details are left (I wanted sandbags).
I don't use keybord shortcuts - probably not going to learn that. I love the game though. Lots of my observations are based on replays though. Plus I keep changing factions - that generally lowers my rank, especially after patches. I don't use any trainig accounts and often break games because of sth happening at home. I've had the same account since the beginning of my coh career. i think it explains a lot.
I use the same nick for gameplay so I think you can check that easily.
How about you? Do you play the game?

The discrepancy between grens utility and other mainline infantry is just too big in relation to cost. You're quoting my response to arguments suggesting that Infantry Sections are more or less similarly powerful to grens and suggestions that grens are too strong and similarly durable to other mainline infantry. My idea was to give them the ability to build sandbags.
Allied tanks are no longer as fragile as many players seem to suggest. Their cost more than reflects performance and the abilities they get. My perspective is simple - for the cost you have to pay for allied tanks they are superior to axis tanks (however controversial to some it will sound). That's part of grens problem - ostheer tanks used to be more powerful compared to allied counterparts and allowed for fragile 4 man infantry squads supporting them (some people on this forum suggest that better ostheer support weapons are supposed to make up for the weaker grens – that is simply wrong). The design was that the arrival of axis tanks used to more than make up for their fragile infantry - it's no longer true as tanks now are more or less similar between factions with sort of more mobility and range on allied side and slower and a bit more sturdy axis tanks (with exceptions).

They don't require less investments! To build grens you need to invest manpower and fuel into a building and waste some time building it with pios, which reduces your map presence. Conversely - you don't need to build any structure to buy rifleman, conscrips or infantry sections. They are larger squads with many upgrade possibilities and less vulnerable to snipers and random wipes. Very often they retain their full model squad status taking severe beating losing just health. They are usually quicker to heal and cheaper to reinforce. They are much more effective on the move, which is often crucial when facing indirect fire and support weapons. They simply scale much better!

True with ambu – but is does two things – heals and reinforces quickly. Axis is mad up of two factions – OKW is a different story. Ostheer light vehicles are extremely vulnerable to small arms fire and bazookas. They are laughable in comparison to allies LV and very micro intensive, especially 222.

You are wrong here. Of course an expensive squad should not be ignored. The problem is that you should compare them to paras/rangers or bazooka rifles rather than to echelons. This is the problem of most allied players. They get a very cheap expendable infantry, equip them with bazookas, get 5th man free upgrade with vet, add a sweeper and don’t even realise that they get a potent at squad for very little. Ostheer must sacrifice an expensive anty infantry squad to get any anti tank capabilities. You don’t need to sacrifice your rifles for at support. I wish osheer could equip pios with a shreck – it would make it more even and you probably wouldn’t see shrecked pzgrens.

I know all about it – and trust me I just roll over such configurations with any allied army looking how easy it is for me to inflict serious bleed to ostheer just too easily. I lose against ostheer only when the opponent is much better than me and you can tell that from their much better micro.

Of course not everything has to be nerfed. I only wanted grens sandbags......

I got a bit edgy there. Lots of people keep tryng to use grens as rifles or cons. Or keep claiming ost is weak and keep wanting to buff everything without looking at the big picture.

If anything sections and volks need a tone down. Penals as well. Volks stg,s because they completly invalidate cons. And section need a hammer anvil path, go 5th man or double lmg imo. Both can loose their sandbags imo.

I keep repeating that the game is balanced all the time – just details are left (I wanted sandbags).

That's a personal preference, not a balance issue.

I don't use keybord shortcuts - probably not going to learn that.

That tells us you don't play on competitive level, where balance matters, because you'd have to be mad fast with mouse not to use hotkeys.

I love the game though. Lots of my observations are based on replays though. Plus I keep changing factions - that generally lowers my rank, especially after patches.I don't use any trainig accounts and often break games because of sth happening at home.

That's not really relevant.

I've had the same account since the beginning of my coh career. i think it explains a lot.

It only says you're around long, not if you're good or bad.
There are plenty of people who have literally tousands of multiplayer games and are still considered noobs.

I use the same nick for gameplay so I think you can check that easily.

Well, you're not good, but there certainly are players much worse then you.
I actually expected much, much worse from what you've written so far.
But that's rank way below meta, anything goes there.

How about you? Do you play the game?

Enough to not pretend that faction with strongest, earliest and most cost efficient support units needs mainline infantry that can stand up to much more expensive counterparts.

I got a bit edgy there. Lots of people keep tryng to use grens as rifles or cons. Or keep claiming ost is weak and keep wanting to buff everything without looking at the big picture.

If anything sections and volks need a tone down. Penals as well. Volks stg,s because they completly invalidate cons. And section need a hammer anvil path, go 5th man or double lmg imo. Both can loose their sandbags imo.

Yes - give sandbags to cons/sections/grens OR remove them from those squads and give them to engies instead.