Grens UP & G43s suck

And so, the crusade to turn grens into rifles, but cheaper and still with all the powerful support units continues.

What you mean? There are 5 times more threads of Riflemen UP and a single G43 gren UP triggers your alarm?

Even when i strongly disagree on buffing either grens or G43, people should be able to say what they need, sometimes they can be on the right side. Or at least learn there are better ways to play the game.

Every doctrinal ability doesn't have to excel against every faction. Ppsh cons for example are less attractive vs okw than Ost since every single okw unit and their dog has an stg but against Ost it's plenty great. Likewise for the g43.

Imo the lmg upgrade is too cost inefficient. Make it 50 muni see how.

As noted the lmg seem to have weird reload and accuracy quality at less than far range. It does not work as well as other upgrade unless you stay still and a certain limited range. it's seem to have smallest window/range to be effective.

Imo the lmg upgrade is too cost inefficient. Make it 50 muni see how.

As noted the lmg seem to have weird reload and accuracy quality at less than far range. It does not work as well as other upgrade unless you stay still and a certain limited range. it's seem to have smallest window/range to be effective.

LMG's in CoH2 are designed to work better at long range. Up close (5-8 meters) they actually do slightly less damage-per-second than the weapon they replace (Kar 98, M1 Garand), but after that they do increased damage-per-second. This change benefits Grenadiers and Sections the most, as these units are dedicated to mostly fighting at range, although the Bren gun is much weaker than the MG 42.

I dont know. Bren blob in 2v2 seem to delete squad faster than lmg blob.

I feel we should increase lmg lethality at its optimal range. Staying still in cover gets harder the longer a 2v2 game gets and put wehr mainline infantry at most disadvantaged.
Even a vetted 7man cons easily bully vetted lmg grens

Besides the small range window, lmg seems to take too long reloading before allies blob close in.

I dont know. Bren blob in 2v2 seem to delete squad faster than lmg blob.

I feel we should increase lmg lethality at its optimal range. Staying still in cover gets harder the longer a 2v2 game gets and put wehr mainline infantry at most disadvantaged.
Even a vetted 7man cons easily bully vetted lmg grens

Besides the small range window, lmg seems to take too long reloading before allies blob close in.

The density of brenblobb is just bigger. For each one of yours they pull out two of theirs, so for real comparasement, your blob should be twice as big

Alzo, OST army is much more centered around turtling and defence(without commanders, I mean). So pull out your trustworthy HMG-42 to support( or any kind of support, if so) and see if those 7-man conscprits can do that again.

But topic is about G43's, and doctrines they are can massively overhaul whole gameplay strats - especialy with that sweet moving accuracy bonus of theirs. Move, supress, snipe, kite with LV, smoke up ur advances, all dat stuff.

Yeah but turtling as Wehr is much harder now, much harder. Hence im keep saying, late game wehr is weakest faction.

Im not sure mg42+gren can stop 2x7man cons. You know oohrah and strong vet bonus of cons. While mg42 has worst reposition times

I dont know. Bren blob in 2v2 seem to delete squad faster than lmg blob.

I feel we should increase lmg lethality at its optimal range. Staying still in cover gets harder the longer a 2v2 game gets and put wehr mainline infantry at most disadvantaged.
Even a vetted 7man cons easily bully vetted lmg grens

Besides the small range window, lmg seems to take too long reloading before allies blob close in.

We must play different game.
Blob A-move dont work everytime.

Yeah but turtling as Wehr is much harder now, much harder. Hence im keep saying, late game wehr is weakest faction.

Im not sure mg42+gren can stop 2x7man cons. You know oohrah and strong vet bonus of cons. While mg42 has worst reposition times

Imo the lmg upgrade is too cost inefficient. Make it 50 muni see how.

Funny you say that, because specifically because of how cost efficient LMG is, G43 sees little use.
Its most cost efficient weapon in game.

As noted the lmg seem to have weird reload and accuracy quality at less than far range. It does not work as well as other upgrade unless you stay still and a certain limited range. it's seem to have smallest window/range to be effective.

So that LMG works like every other LMG in game.
LMGs are long range weapons.
Good thing ost got infantry and support weapons to force opponents stay at long range.
Now learn to use them.

I think mg42 needs vet buff to stay in the game.
By having the same reposition times while allies infantry grow stronger, the good thing of it just cant keep up.

5 man grens are extremely powerful especially with the new DR buff... your proposal will break the game...


And newsflash 5 man grens come earlier than 7 man cons despite having relatively more firepower (the g43 crit)

Since when did the grens get the "g43" crit with the 5 man package? I thought it was just a standard G43.

you just got it wrong.
G43s are not for grenblobbing and A-attack. First they are doctrinal, if that doesnt tell you anything, then just dont use them. Second, where are your teamweapons, 222's or heavy cover?

CoH2 is a very, very strategical game, even massing troops can be a mistake if you dont plan ahead what to do with them.

G43 are great, just change the way of using them was my point

Let's not turn this into a thread about fingerpointing l2p issues. I play mainly 1v1s with ostheer so blobbing is something I'm not into.

You make a great point of not evaluating the performance of g43s in vacuum, but the thing is: If I already field combined arms then why should I not play to the advantages and strengths of my faction and pick LMGs? As Katitof here put it: "...because specifically because of how cost efficient LMG is, G43 sees little use.
Its most cost efficient weapon in game."

My main points in this thread were about about timings. CURRENTLY the time you now get g43s at 2Cp you already field if playing meta:
-Pioneer w. FW35
-mg42
-3xgrens
-222
-(maybe one or two extra units depending on mp bleed and pacing)

Would you not agree that at this point in the hands of adept player g43s have already lost time to shine and LMGs offer better value? My main suggestion was to make g43s available at earlier timing, lets say after you've gotten your 3rd grenadier out. This way the g43s could act as an early powerspike (sacrificing late game performance) before transitioning to the combined arms when the LMGs are better option anyways.

as per usual all mrgame2 posts are l2p issues... just disregard the troll and his troll attempts at being bad...

anyways grens dont seem too bad atm at least compared to cons... the real issue is rifles/volks outclassing grens and cons... hence my assumption that WFA infantry might be too strong

I think mg42 needs vet buff to stay in the game.

Well, you're allowed to do that.
Doesn't make it a fact tho.

By having the same reposition times while allies infantry grow stronger, the good thing of it just cant keep up.

So use other infantry to support it?
Ost is THE combined arms faction, not a single unit is fully self sufficient and all are stronger together then individually.

Position it better.

If you want to place something in one spot and forget about it, build a bunker.

Grens should build cover like volks, cons, sections or most often rifles. They should have some more abilities through commanders, similarily to allies. Mines, close range weapons, some more varied grenades - all through spwecific commanders would provide more diversity and allow thse 4 man squads be more useful and would make the game much better.

It's sort of sad that we discuss g43 a specific commander 'upgrade'that is not even close to some cool abilities RM or sections can get through commanders.

Grens should build cover like volks, cons, sections or most often rifles. They should have some more abilities through commanders, similarily to allies. Mines, close range weapons, some more varied grenades - all through spwecific commanders would provide more diversity and allow thse 4 man squads be more useful and would make the game much better.

It's sort of sad that we discuss g43 a specific commander 'upgrade'that is not even close to some cool abilities RM or sections can get through commanders.

I'm having a hard time telling if that's a sarcasm or you actually mean it.

(because grens DO have varied upgrades, abilities through commanders, alternative nades and so on)

Grens should build cover like volks, cons, sections or most often rifles. They should have some more abilities through commanders, similarily to allies. Mines, close range weapons, some more varied grenades - all through spwecific commanders would provide more diversity and allow thse 4 man squads be more useful and would make the game much better.

It's sort of sad that we discuss g43 a specific commander 'upgrade'that is not even close to some cool abilities RM or sections can get through commanders.

mmkay... can conscripts get a grenade thats better than the molotov? can we also have the 30% dps buff out of cover? can conscripts bleed less? can conscripts get a longer range faust? can conscripts do more base dps?

sometimes we look at the disadvantages of a unit and not see how its advantages balance it out with other units...

I'm having a hard time telling if that's a sarcasm or you actually mean it.

(because grens DO have varied upgrades, abilities through commanders, alternative nades and so on)

I really meant it I feel that there should be more variety (of course properly adjusted not to buff but add variety). I feel that the commander with those five man squad option was a step in the right direction. No heavy tank but 5 man squads instead. I'd add a commander with, for exaple, grens+stgs/mp40s option. I feel many players would welcome more varied grens utility rather than pure combat stat changes.

(I feel that there is more varied upgrades for infantry on the allied side - even simply because of 3 armies that you confront as axis and 2 armies you confront as allies)

mmkay... can conscripts get a grenade thats better than the molotov? can we also have the 30% dps buff out of cover? can conscripts bleed less? can conscripts get a longer range faust? can conscripts do more base dps?

sometimes we look at the disadvantages of a unit and not see how its advantages balance it out with other units...

Well, they have oorah (super cool), build sandbags, have molotovs, have at nade, have the possibility to upgrade to 7 man squads, they also are 6 man and can crew abandoned weapons more easily plus merge with other squads (such as, for example, engineers making their flame ugrade almost nonretreatable) - all this is non doctrine (that's more abilities compared to grens)

With doctrines they can get ptrs, more powerful at nades with the cloak ability to surprise vehicles; they can repair vehicles (super powerful when you have 3+ vehilcles), they get ppsh and the ability to hit the dirt. All very useful and probably I've forgotten about some abilities. In my opinion, all those utilities add up and may win you the game if used right. Grens, contrary to what is written in their game decription, have fewer abilities than cons and are easier to wipe. It makes perfect sense to finally do sth abut it - I'd add more abilities to grens rather than buff g43s, for example.

Well, they have oorah (super cool), build sandbags, have molotovs, have at nade, have the possibility to upgrade to 7 man squads, they also are 6 man and can crew abandoned weapons more easily plus merge with other squads (such as, for example, engineers making their flame ugrade almost nonretreatable) - all this is non doctrine (that's more abilities compared to grens)

With doctrines they can get ptrs, more powerful at nades with the cloak ability to surprise vehicles; they can repair vehicles (super powerful when you have 3+ vehilcles), they get ppsh and the ability to hit the dirt. All very useful and probably I've forgotten about some abilities. In my opinion, all those utilities add up and may win you the game if used right. Grens, contrary to what is written in their game decription, have fewer abilities than cons and are easier to wipe. It makes perfect sense to finally do sth abut it - I'd add more abilities to grens rather than buff g43s, for example.

They also can't do anything on their own without doctrinal dedication or massive fuel investments, most significant one being gated very late contrary to all other infantries.

Do you want grens to have more abilities at the cost of being impotent in combat unless you pick specific doctrine or are at mid/late game?