Are AXIS Unbalanced? Debate

Hey everyone, how's it going? I'd like to see other people's points of views on this. I still consider myself new. So maybe a German player can tell me how it feels to play against SU (My main)

So yeah, "Balance". What even is it when the Axis can literally just out match everything the Allies have. I have played 420 hours, and it genuinely feels like we are absolutely outmatched.

Let's talk.

1. German AT - just downright over powered. OKW Volks get access to good AT, being the Panzerfaust . That works so much better than soviet AT nades. Soviet AT nades stop working when the Panther comes out. Where'as Panzerfausts will knock out a KV1s engine instantly. Panzergrens - Solid anti infantry, great AT capabilties. Raketenwerfer, you unlock it basically when the game starts. PAK 40, does a heap of damage. Jagdpanzer - Basically a more armoured SU 85, that has less range.

Now compare this to the soviets. We get a doctine Tank Hunter Tactics which makes Conscripts useless against infantry. Plus no one is stupid enought to rush tanks. We get an AT gun which supposedly has great range, but i don't see it. Infact i'll click on a tank, the AT gun will move abotu 1m from the tank before it shoots, maybe it's AI. "Penals" They are "Meh". Might as well go with Guards. SU 76 which gets 1 round off before any light tank retreats. SU 85 which is a glass cannon and dies pretty quick.

2. Encampments - Compare a MG42 bunker to an American Encampment. The American encampment literally dies to normal infantry fire. For me to kill a bunker i need to use a mortar and/or tanks.

3. German Tanks - Do i even bother? Enjoy having your tanks absolutely melted by infantry and german tanks. Sure Soviet tanks are cheap. I can build 3 T 34s at the cost of your 1 panther (I am exaggerating). All that means is i am now able to lose 3 T 34s.

4. Engineers and MG42s - I mean the MG 42 might as well just have a 360 degree circle. Why does it need such a big cone? it suppresses almost instantly, it has AP rounds that can pen light tanks (More AT i guess). Sturm Pioneers, all of them get STG's, all of them can be spammed against Conscripts, and on a long range map, this is easily beaten. But on a cqc map, what can you do?


This is purely my perspective as a main SU player. If i go up against someone simular skill to me i normally lose, purely due them just being "Axis". I use combined arms, i am not a dumb player. But i feel like this game can be so fun, yet so fustrating.


What's your view? What does Axis think? What does the Allies do that you absolutely hate?

Soviets are a faction built around abusing your crutch units. Find out which ones they are and abuse them.

Soviets are a faction built around abusing your crutch units. Find out which ones they are and abuse them.

Crutch units?

Crutch units?

Units overperforming so much that they drag then entire faction up to balanced.

guys guys, just don't reply here, he didn't even get 1 unit stats right

sounds like a bunch of l2p issues (no offense) to me

keep playing, and try all factions to get a more well rounded view

Just L2P issue. This topic looks as one big trolling thing. I am playing mostly for SU and OST. Mostly for SU.

Let's talk.

1. German AT - just downright over powered. OKW Volks get access to good AT, being the Panzerfaust . That works so much better than soviet AT nades. Soviet AT nades stop working when the Panther comes out. Where'as Panzerfausts will knock out a KV1s engine instantly. Panzergrens - Solid anti infantry, great AT capabilties. Raketenwerfer, you unlock it basically when the game starts. PAK 40, does a heap of damage. Jagdpanzer - Basically a more armoured SU 85, that has less range.

Volks have snare like ALL baseline infantry in-game (besides brits). ANd if yo play 400+ hours in game you may be noticed that faust can: kill soldier who shoot if enemy armor in point-blank, it can hit to ground instead vehicle. All at-nades don't have such weak sides.
Panther need only 1 hit from AT to become snared (the same issue with kv1 - 1 shot + snare). Only super heavies need 2 shots + snare.
Pgrens are good, but also expensive to become mainline infantry - they are elite infantry.
Raketenwerfer - and which armor you will see in start of game? M3 and UC? Sometimes USF mechanized. But in any other situations no one build it from start of game. Also it have only 55 range instead of 60.
Pak40 - i have very bad news for you- it deals the same damage as zis, raketen, brit and usf AT-gun - 160 damage per shot.
Jagdpanzer - problems with flanking?

Now compare this to the soviets. We get a doctine Tank Hunter Tactics which makes Conscripts useless against infantry. Plus no one is stupid enought to rush tanks. We get an AT gun which supposedly has great range, but i don't see it. Infact i'll click on a tank, the AT gun will move abotu 1m from the tank before it shoots, maybe it's AI. "Penals" They are "Meh". Might as well go with Guards. SU 76 which gets 1 round off before any light tank retreats. SU 85 which is a glass cannon and dies pretty quick.

Tank hunter doc - penals+1-2 cons with ptrs. All what you need. With ptrs you get free access to AT-nades. 2 cons could almost kill p4, if you throw all 12 nades on it, only need couple shots from ptrs to finish it. T-34 ram + il-2 PTAB or cons (they still have Hoora!) with nades. L2P issue.
SU-76 - why i don't amaze that prey runs from hunter? SU-76 is hardcounter against any LV (against puma could be troubles if it catch you).
SU-85 - L2P issue, don't rush, have near snares or at-guns to cover from flanking tanks. It have 60 range. Only AT-guns have the same range. No any stock OST armor unit don't have 60 range (stug have 50). It pens any stock OST unit. You need only snares to defend it.

2. Encampments - Compare a MG42 bunker to an American Encampment. The American encampment literally dies to normal infantry fire. For me to kill a bunker i need to use a mortar and/or tanks.

Each faction have unique design. SU don't have bunkers at all. OKW flaks can be decrewed and used against their former comrades (and cost fuel). UKF have only trenches. OST mg-bunker got huge vision nerf with this patch. Even before patch - 1 AT-gun and it will die pretty quick, or 1 satchel. Don't forget smoke from mortar.

3. German Tanks - Do i even bother? Enjoy having your tanks absolutely melted by infantry and german tanks. Sure Soviet tanks are cheap. All that means is i am now able to lose 3 T 34s.

They cost more than any allies medium. And you AT-guns still hardcounter them. Especially OKW P4 (140 fuel). For 1 OST p4 you can build t-3485 if choose doc that beat p4 1vs1 in any engagement. If you lose 3 t-3476 against 1 panther - L2P issue. Use ram and 2 other will kill panther from rear armor . You even can use 2-nd t-3476 for ram when panther will start moving to not give P5 any chanes to eascape. 3 t3476 always kill 1 P5.

4. Engineers and MG42s - I mean the MG 42 might as well just have a 360 degree circle. Why does it need such a big cone? it suppresses almost instantly, it has AP rounds that can pen light tanks (More AT i guess). Sturm Pioneers, all of them get STG's, all of them can be spammed against Conscripts, and on a long range map, this is easily beaten. But on a cqc map, what can you do?

Looks like someone don't learned enough good geometry in school. Not 360 (full circle), not even 180. MG-42 have or 140 or 120. Lesser than 180 (half of circle) . Snipers, M3, mortars, hoora. All this works against Mg-42. SMoke!
SturmPio really good only in early game, when they could deal tons of damage. Play T1 or SVT-cons against OKW and you will save you nerves. They still very expensive unit. On cqc maps use airborne doc and penals with ppsh. They will shred any stupid sturmpio in cqc. Or use SHOCKS - kings of cqc maps and battles.

This is purely my perspective as a main SU player. If i go up against someone simular skill to me i normally lose, purely due them just being "Axis". I use combined arms, i am not a dumb player. But i feel like this game can be so fun, yet so fustrating.

This is purely my perspective as a main SU player.
In 1vs1 you have all tools to win. Use brain, use covers, never stay in red cover, use hoora to run from sturmpio or pgrens, don't fight 1 sqaud against 2, always try keep you squads together (prefer in some distance), use leading squad which will be looking to any MG-42 ahead to save comrades behind from suppresion, place demos in bushes or behind buildings.
Have problems with commanders? 2 Old schools, always working choices - t-3485+guard commander and is-2 with shocks. 3-rd commander on your choice, but i prefer Airborne.

guys guys, just don't reply here, he didn't even get 1 unit stats right

I think correction is better than attempted Humiliation.

I make a mistake? Correct me, don't be counter productive

sounds like a bunch of l2p issues (no offense) to me

keep playing, and try all factions to get a more well rounded view

Cheers dude, as i said i still consider myself new. But i'd love to hear what Axis players have to say, i wonder what annoys them?

Just L2P issue. This topic looks as one big trolling thing. I am playing mostly for SU and OST. Mostly for SU.



Volks have snare like ALL baseline infantry in-game (besides brits). ANd if yo play 400+ hours in game you may be noticed that faust can: kill soldier who shoot if enemy armor in point-blank, it can hit to ground instead vehicle. All at-nades don't have such weak sides.
Panther need only 1 hit from AT to become snared (the same issue with kv1 - 1 shot + snare). Only super heavies need 2 shots + snare.
Pgrens are good, but also expensive to become mainline infantry - they are elite infantry.
Raketenwerfer - and which armor you will see in start of game? M3 and UC? Sometimes USF mechanized. But in any other situations no one build it from start of game. Also it have only 55 range instead of 60.
Pak40 - i have very bad news for you- it deals the same damage as zis, raketen, brit and usf AT-gun - 160 damage per shot.
Jagdpanzer - problems with flanking?


Tank hunter doc - penals+1-2 cons with ptrs. All what you need. With ptrs you get free access to AT-nades. 2 cons could almost kill p4, if you throw all 12 nades on it, only need couple shots from ptrs to finish it. T-34 ram + il-2 PTAB or cons (they still have Hoora!) with nades. L2P issue.
SU-76 - why i don't amaze that prey runs from hunter? SU-76 is hardcounter against any LV (against puma could be troubles if it catch you).
SU-85 - L2P issue, don't rush, have near snares or at-guns to cover from flanking tanks. It have 60 range. Only AT-guns have the same range. No any stock OST armor unit don't have 60 range (stug have 50). It pens any stock OST unit. You need only snares to defend it.



Each faction have unique design. SU don't have bunkers at all. OKW flaks can be decrewed and used against their former comrades (and cost fuel). UKF have only trenches. OST mg-bunker got huge vision nerf with this patch. Even before patch - 1 AT-gun and it will die pretty quick, or 1 satchel. Don't forget smoke from mortar.



They cost more than any allies medium. And you AT-guns still hardcounter them. Especially OKW P4 (140 fuel). For 1 OST p4 you can build t-3485 if choose doc that beat p4 1vs1 in any engagement. If you lose 3 t-3476 against 1 panther - L2P issue. Use ram and 2 other will kill panther from rear armor . You even can use 2-nd t-3476 for ram when panther will start moving to not give P5 any chanes to eascape. 3 t3476 always kill 1 P5.



Looks like someone don't learned enough good geometry in school. Not 360 (full circle), not even 180. MG-42 have or 140 or 120. Lesser than 180 (half of circle) . Snipers, M3, mortars, hoora. All this works against Mg-42. SMoke!
SturmPio really good only in early game, when they could deal tons of damage. Play T1 or SVT-cons against OKW and you will save you nerves. They still very expensive unit. On cqc maps use airborne doc and penals with ppsh. They will shred any stupid sturmpio in cqc. Or use SHOCKS - kings of cqc maps and battles.



This is purely my perspective as a main SU player.
In 1vs1 you have all tools to win. Use brain, use covers, never stay in red cover, use hoora to run from sturmpio or pgrens, don't fight 1 sqaud against 2, always try keep you squads together (prefer in some distance), use leading squad which will be looking to any MG-42 ahead to save comrades behind from suppresion, place demos in bushes or behind buildings.
Have problems with commanders? 2 Old schools, always working choices - t-3485+guard commander and is-2 with shocks. 3-rd commander on your choice, but i prefer Airborne.

Aha i assure you it's not a troll thing. I appreciate the reply, i'll give it a read

Or you can upload a replay (preferably 1v1/2v2) where you face problems such as these and ask for help in the strategy desk. It's hard to expect honest advice with a thread like this (if that's what you're hoping for, because you should focus on your play at lower ranks, not on balance).

Or you can upload a replay (preferably 1v1/2v2) where you face problems such as these and ask for help in the strategy desk. It's hard to expect honest advice with a thread like this (if that's what you're hoping for, because you should focus on your play at lower ranks, not on balance).

You make a good point, maybe you're right. I'll do that, thanks.

Just L2P issue. This topic looks as one big trolling thing. I am playing mostly for SU and OST. Mostly for SU.



Volks have snare like ALL baseline infantry in-game (besides brits). ANd if yo play 400+ hours in game you may be noticed that faust can: kill soldier who shoot if enemy armor in point-blank, it can hit to ground instead vehicle. All at-nades don't have such weak sides.
Panther need only 1 hit from AT to become snared (the same issue with kv1 - 1 shot + snare). Only super heavies need 2 shots + snare.
Pgrens are good, but also expensive to become mainline infantry - they are elite infantry.
Raketenwerfer - and which armor you will see in start of game? M3 and UC? Sometimes USF mechanized. But in any other situations no one build it from start of game. Also it have only 55 range instead of 60.
Pak40 - i have very bad news for you- it deals the same damage as zis, raketen, brit and usf AT-gun - 160 damage per shot.
Jagdpanzer - problems with flanking?


Tank hunter doc - penals+1-2 cons with ptrs. All what you need. With ptrs you get free access to AT-nades. 2 cons could almost kill p4, if you throw all 12 nades on it, only need couple shots from ptrs to finish it. T-34 ram + il-2 PTAB or cons (they still have Hoora!) with nades. L2P issue.
SU-76 - why i don't amaze that prey runs from hunter? SU-76 is hardcounter against any LV (against puma could be troubles if it catch you).
SU-85 - L2P issue, don't rush, have near snares or at-guns to cover from flanking tanks. It have 60 range. Only AT-guns have the same range. No any stock OST armor unit don't have 60 range (stug have 50). It pens any stock OST unit. You need only snares to defend it.



Each faction have unique design. SU don't have bunkers at all. OKW flaks can be decrewed and used against their former comrades (and cost fuel). UKF have only trenches. OST mg-bunker got huge vision nerf with this patch. Even before patch - 1 AT-gun and it will die pretty quick, or 1 satchel. Don't forget smoke from mortar.



They cost more than any allies medium. And you AT-guns still hardcounter them. Especially OKW P4 (140 fuel). For 1 OST p4 you can build t-3485 if choose doc that beat p4 1vs1 in any engagement. If you lose 3 t-3476 against 1 panther - L2P issue. Use ram and 2 other will kill panther from rear armor . You even can use 2-nd t-3476 for ram when panther will start moving to not give P5 any chanes to eascape. 3 t3476 always kill 1 P5.



Looks like someone don't learned enough good geometry in school. Not 360 (full circle), not even 180. MG-42 have or 140 or 120. Lesser than 180 (half of circle) . Snipers, M3, mortars, hoora. All this works against Mg-42. SMoke!
SturmPio really good only in early game, when they could deal tons of damage. Play T1 or SVT-cons against OKW and you will save you nerves. They still very expensive unit. On cqc maps use airborne doc and penals with ppsh. They will shred any stupid sturmpio in cqc. Or use SHOCKS - kings of cqc maps and battles.



This is purely my perspective as a main SU player.
In 1vs1 you have all tools to win. Use brain, use covers, never stay in red cover, use hoora to run from sturmpio or pgrens, don't fight 1 sqaud against 2, always try keep you squads together (prefer in some distance), use leading squad which will be looking to any MG-42 ahead to save comrades behind from suppresion, place demos in bushes or behind buildings.
Have problems with commanders? 2 Old schools, always working choices - t-3485+guard commander and is-2 with shocks. 3-rd commander on your choice, but i prefer Airborne.

You made me realise a lot, more so my lack of usage of abilities correctly. I massively appreciate what you said, thanks.

When i play i normally go pure conscripts. 4 Cons, 2 guards, 1 KV, 1 SU, MG and maybe a mortar. I almost never ever build AT guns. Maybe i will change up

You made me realise a lot, more so my lack of usage of abilities correctly. I massively appreciate what you said, thanks.

When i play i normally go pure conscripts. 4 Cons, 2 guards, 1 KV, 1 SU, MG and maybe a mortar. I almost never ever build AT guns. Maybe i will change up

Cons are fine into OST but pretty bad into OKW. Cons biggest thing is map presence but OKW has similar map presence early and cons trade terribly into volks and sturms. Id recommend a T1 start against OKW with penals and scout car.

People may prefer playing Axis, because they like the appearance of the units, because they like the military history of Germany, because they adhere to the belief in Germany's alledged technical supremacy over the Allies or because they may just like the tech tree and play style of those factions. In any case those people will always say OKW and OST are weak and unbalanced.

I think this is a LTP issue. If this were true, you’d expect a 75%+ winrate for OKW and Ost on ladder, which you don’t see.

You can check out the winrate stats here:
https://www.coh2.org/news/92866/automatch-stats-factions-teams-and-maps#stat1v1


I would HIGHLY recommend trying out other factions. As Ost I thought USF was OP but then I played USF for a while and then I understood their weaknesses and was able to beat them

For Soviets, I love guard motor coordination tactics.

A t2 (maxim, ZiS and mortar building) start works great with this commander. PPSHs mean that your conscripts stay relevant, Gaurds can fight off light vehicles to protect conscripts,, the cannon loiter wreaks weak Ostheer squads, the KV 1 works amazing with SU 85, and the howitzer can be built if he camps.

As you can probably tell Soviets are all about combined arms. Zis barrage is great VS MGs and mortar flare gives great vision
This is my favorite commander because it emphasizes combined arms


Also, GET A T70 AS FAST AS YOU CAN. it absolutely wreaks face!

Cons are fine into OST but pretty bad into OKW. Cons biggest thing is map presence but OKW has similar map presence early and cons trade terribly into volks and sturms. Id recommend a T1 start against OKW with penals and scout car.

I always did penals, but how can you cope with less map presence and high replenishment costs?

Would 3 penals, and 2 cons work well?

ANd with the penals shall i make the AT or keep them on fighting infantry and call in guards?

if u are serious here https://coh2db.com/stats/#120

it's outdated but it's something

both at nade and panzer faust snare and deal the same damage

panther will get snared after 1 hit but actually the kv1 can dflect the snare and so not get the engine crit as 1 at gun + a non penning at nade = 192 damage while 75% of 800 is 600 so 8 damage short but if the at nade pen it will deal 16 more damage and crit the engine

all stock at gun deal the same damage with different reload and pen

jp4 has same range as su 85 but much worse pen for more armor

penal are still OP and the crutch unit for soviet with the t 70

2 t34 /76 can beat a panther and cost less fuel

mg 42 has same arc as vicker and mg34

sturmpio cost 300 mp cons cost 240, how do u get out spammed ?

I think this is a LTP issue. If this were true, you’d expect a 75%+ winrate for OKW and Ost on ladder, which you don’t see.

You can check out the winrate stats here:
https://www.coh2.org/news/92866/automatch-stats-factions-teams-and-maps#stat1v1


I would HIGHLY recommend trying out other factions. As Ost I thought USF was OP but then I played USF for a while and then I understood their weaknesses and was able to beat them

For Soviets, I love guard motor coordination tactics.

A t2 (maxim, ZiS and mortar building) start works great with this commander. PPSHs mean that your conscripts stay relevant, Gaurds can fight off light vehicles to protect conscripts,, the cannon loiter wreaks weak Ostheer squads, the KV 1 works amazing with SU 85, and the howitzer can be built if he camps.

As you can probably tell Soviets are all about combined arms. Zis barrage is great VS MGs and mortar flare gives great vision
This is my favorite commander because it emphasizes combined arms


Also, GET A T70 AS FAST AS YOU CAN. it absolutely wreaks face!

THanks dude i appreciate it! WIll take your advice

if u are serious here https://coh2db.com/stats/#120

it's outdated but it's something

both at nade and panzer faust snare and deal the same damage

both panther and kv1 will get snared after 1 at gun hit

all stock at gun deal the same damage with different reload and pen

jp4 has same range as su 85 but much worse pen for more armor

penal are still OP and the crutch unit for soviet with the t 70

2 t34 /76 can beat a panther and cost less fuel

mg 42 has same arc as vicker and mg34

sturmpio cost 300 mp cons cost 240, how do u get out spammed ?

Thanks for the info, i appreciate it.

And do you not see it? Players spamming Engineers? They will have like, 4 on the field, they wreck havoc