Fully vetted, cons is better.
Can i suggest after all buffs given, we relook 2 vital cons stats.
1. They have faster movement, even without oohrah, moving from a to b, cons is clearly faster than grens, fast enough to flank team weapons.
Can we make this speed same as grens.
2. 40% ra on vet3, very powerful and makes lmg worthless against 7 man before they close in to kill the poor 4 man squad. Lets try 20% first
Vetted 7 man conscripts vs vetted lmg grens..
29 Sep 2019, 12:11 PM
#1
Posts: 1794
29 Sep 2019, 12:15 PM
#2
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
1) All infantries move with exact same speed. The only exception are vet1 PGs near vehicles.
2) Use grenades, panzergrens and vehicles, you will have med armor shortly after 7th man and they most certainly will not be vet3 by that time.
2) Use grenades, panzergrens and vehicles, you will have med armor shortly after 7th man and they most certainly will not be vet3 by that time.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
29 Sep 2019, 12:17 PM
#3
Posts: 1794
No cons move faster. I have tested many times in cheatmod.
The 7 man upgrade help faster vet. Faster than lmg grens for sure
The 7 man upgrade help faster vet. Faster than lmg grens for sure
29 Sep 2019, 12:26 PM
#4
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
7th man adds vetting speed. That's in the patch notes.
And LMG will be there much, much earlier.
Again, ALL infantry have THE EXACT SAME MOVEMENT SPEED.
There is no exception to that short of vet1 PGs.
And LMG will be there much, much earlier.
Again, ALL infantry have THE EXACT SAME MOVEMENT SPEED.
There is no exception to that short of vet1 PGs.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
29 Sep 2019, 12:28 PM
#5
Posts: 1794
So why i test in cheatmod cons move to destination b faster than grens? Bug thats missed.
Im not talking of sprint like pg. Cons simply move faster. Anyone else try it?
Im not talking of sprint like pg. Cons simply move faster. Anyone else try it?
29 Sep 2019, 12:31 PM
#6
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Probably because you did something wrong and suffer from observation bias.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
29 Sep 2019, 12:38 PM
#7
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
7th man adds vetting speed. That's in the patch notes.
And LMG will be there much, much earlier.
Again, ALL infantry have THE EXACT SAME MOVEMENT SPEED.
There is no exception to that short of vet1 PGs.
A clarification:
Some infatry have different speeds depending on type of ground since different modifiers apply.
29 Sep 2019, 12:41 PM
#8
Posts: 3260
So why i test in cheatmod cons move to destination b faster than grens? Bug thats missed.
Im not talking of sprint like pg. Cons simply move faster. Anyone else try it?
Tested it just now: they raced each other across Tric's test map.
Speed is identical, even at Vet 3 when Conscripts ostensibly get a mobility buff.
If you didn't have them racing on perfectly parallel paths, one will appear to gain on the other.
29 Sep 2019, 12:42 PM
#9
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
A clarification:
Some infatry have different speeds depending on type of ground since different modifiers apply.
Unless he did his "tests" on some kind of obscure map, on regular neutral terrain all have the exact same speed.
I'm also not aware of any kind of infantry moving with different speeds to all others on specific terrain, so it would be great if you could give an example of this.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
29 Sep 2019, 13:20 PM
#10
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
...
I'm also not aware of any kind of infantry moving with different speeds to all others on specific terrain, so it would be great if you could give an example of this.
Since you ask politely I will be more than happy to explain:
For instance the speed of Riflemen in deep snow is 45% the normal while for assault engineers is 100%.
Apart from that there abilities auras and command abilities that increase the movement speed of infatry:
Like commandos Ambush speed bonus vet 2
Inspiration KV-2/Kv-8
Assault
and others.
29 Sep 2019, 13:35 PM
#11
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Abilities are kind of obvious and goes without saying.
Special ground like mud or deep snow also isn't anything new, its also something that isn't in normal ladder as well.
It still doesn't support or excuse what OP claims.
Special ground like mud or deep snow also isn't anything new, its also something that isn't in normal ladder as well.
It still doesn't support or excuse what OP claims.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
29 Sep 2019, 13:41 PM
#12
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Abilities are kind of obvious and goes without saying.
Special ground like mud or deep snow also isn't anything new, its also something that isn't in normal ladder as well.
It still doesn't support or excuse what OP claims.
I did not in any way support the claim that 7th entity conscripts move faster than Grenadier.I have not made any test to check it.
I have simply clarified that the statement "ALL infantry have THE EXACT SAME MOVEMENT SPEED" is a bit inaccurate.
Infantry can move at different speeds at different terrains because they are using different modifier for terrain type, that is not restricted to snow and mud (I simply used deep snow as example.)
29 Sep 2019, 13:44 PM
#13
Posts: 1794
I tested on flat green grounds using a triangle path. Select both Grens and cons and move them to a distance in between them. Sure is not scientific, but every time cons reach first clear margin.
I dont know...a bug? Animation issue? Larger squad size?
The movement speed is not due to 7th man. I did my tests before the buff.
I dont know...a bug? Animation issue? Larger squad size?
The movement speed is not due to 7th man. I did my tests before the buff.
29 Sep 2019, 15:05 PM
#14
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
I tested on flat green grounds using a triangle path. Select both Grens and cons and move them to a distance in between them. Sure is not scientific, but every time cons reach first clear margin.
Maybe use the test range map that has actual measurements? Instead of eyeballing a point in between them?
There is no movement speed difference. That would make no sense on a squad that already has hoorah
29 Sep 2019, 18:17 PM
#15
Posts: 1794
Does the test range map keep track of time vs distance? That is very helpful.
Im sure im not blind, my tests keep showing cons reach faster. Any modteam with better access can verify?
But speed is just one. How about the 40% RA? It makes them stronger than lmg Grens and even close range Pg. \
Very strong cons meta in 2v2. Sov will make with 3 squads to overwhelm early Wehr and stay alive for sweet vet bonus
Im sure im not blind, my tests keep showing cons reach faster. Any modteam with better access can verify?
But speed is just one. How about the 40% RA? It makes them stronger than lmg Grens and even close range Pg. \
Very strong cons meta in 2v2. Sov will make with 3 squads to overwhelm early Wehr and stay alive for sweet vet bonus
29 Sep 2019, 18:49 PM
#16
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
But speed is just one. How about the 40% RA? It makes them stronger than lmg Grens and even close range Pg.
How about conscripts starting at a target size of 1.087, while grens start at .91 and pgrens start at .8?
29 Sep 2019, 19:46 PM
#17
Posts: 711
Does the test range map keep track of time vs distance? That is very helpful.
Im sure im not blind, my tests keep showing cons reach faster. Any modteam with better access can verify?
But speed is just one. How about the 40% RA? It makes them stronger than lmg Grens and even close range Pg. \
Very strong cons meta in 2v2. Sov will make with 3 squads to overwhelm early Wehr and stay alive for sweet vet bonus
Timings...you will get 007 con only with T4 or need investment tons of resources if you want it in T3.
And if you want reduce RA bonus for cons...maybe you have better ideas how make cons viable against grens with weapon upgrades, pgrens and volks with stg? Or you want see only T1 in every SU game as was some time ago?
29 Sep 2019, 21:20 PM
#18
Posts: 2358
Even when cons are 6 man and with faster vets, to get them to vet3 is a real uphill challenge. IMO its fine if they perform better than grens, with the 7 man upgrade, OC.
29 Sep 2019, 21:21 PM
#19
Posts: 3260
I tested on flat green grounds using a triangle path. Select both Grens and cons and move them to a distance in between them. Sure is not scientific, but every time cons reach first clear margin.
That's a very error prone method. Try racing them on parallel lines and seeing if one gains on the other.
29 Sep 2019, 22:58 PM
#20
Posts: 5279
That's a very error prone method. Try racing them on parallel lines and seeing if one gains on the other.
Not error prone if you are deliberately using a convoluted method so it can yield the results you want. I mean... Whos first thought for testing movement speed is a triangle pattern?
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