Is it bad to use assault grens?

I used to use assault grenadiers quite often but I have stopped using them completely as I found pretty much every opponent I beat s message me "Pay to win noob" which made me feel like I was cheating or taking an easy route to victory.

What are peoples thoughts on this?

I used to use assault grenadiers quite often but I have stopped using them completely as I found pretty much every opponent I beat s message me "Pay to win noob" which made me feel like I was cheating or taking an easy route to victory.

What are peoples thoughts on this?

For me, it doesn't matter.

Of course some people knows how to play better with them than others. One game I have had where I stood no chance against them, really good playing from my opponent. Maybe it was also bad play from me.

Yesterday I faced two players with those and they didn't matter. I try to read the game and do few things differently if I see them early.

Never have I actually complained at the chat to my opponent against his gamestyle.

For me, it doesn't matter.

Of course some people knows how to play better with them than others. One game I have had where I stood no chance against them, really good playing from my opponent. Maybe it was also bad play from me.

Yesterday I faced two players with those and they didn't matter. I try to read the game and do few things differently if I see them early.

Never have I actually complained at the chat to my opponent against his gamestyle.

You must be one of the rare fair play gamers you don't see alot of these days

I dont know about the "Win" part, but its definately "Pay To".

Maybe they're a bit too good. I think the biggest issue is the call-in cooldown/how quickly they get on the field - I suspect the stats and costs are basically alright when people play against them reasonably well.

I find pure grens + LMGs and Ostruppen FOR ALL THE BUILDINGS far simpler to use and much stronger at my level of play. People who rage about assault grens being p2w tend to rage about anything, in my experience (the map, balance of units you and they didn't use anyway, input lag; also, they often have paid doctrines themselves).

just spam it until u play against better players who understands the apparent weakness of assault grens.

i fear good gren players more than assault grens

Don't worry about it. I use them all the time and the more I do the more I am convinced they are not as op in 1v1 as people claim. It has more to do with people not knowing how to counter them and also with the uncertainty that comes with facing them.

For example, in COH1 you knew if you were playing against a german or pe player from start. Now in coh2 you are not sure until you see the first unit so you might opt for the wrong start and end up losing for that. That's mainly what's annoying about them. Otherwise, on most maps they can be beaten.

I bought the AG commander early on but didn't really click with it.

After the initial quick nerf prevented me from using it as a rushing unit to combat cutoff-building rushes in t0 while still building my normal t1 units, I lost interest.

I think people's issue with it comes from the fact that the unit itself is stronger than conscripts and comes t0.

Ironically there is a small bit of justice in seeing soviet players pissed that a t0 unit rushes their fuel/cutoff and sits in a building B) Welcome to every game as ostheer

It's perfectly fine to use them. The soviet player was likely just outplayed. A standard 3x conscript + molotov opening into T1 or T2 shouldn't have an obscene amount of trouble with them. While they are a pain until you get your tier structure up, the soviets either have to avoid, locally outnumber, or use buildings to stay even.

T1 -> once the scout car is up feel free to go hunting - assault grens can't faust you.
T2 -> use maxim to suppress them.

The soviets have the necessary tools to deal with assault grens. If they are whining it's their problem. The only time I ever had a problem against them was the first day they came out unbalanced.

Ironically there is a small bit of justice in seeing soviet players pissed that a t0 unit rushes their fuel/cutoff and sits in a building

only people who play one faction think like that. Otherwise people want a balanced game not pissed players

It's perfectly fine to use them. The soviet player was likely just outplayed. A standard 3x conscript + molotov opening into T1 or T2 shouldn't have an obscene amount of trouble with them. While they are a pain until you get your tier structure up, the soviets either have to avoid, locally outnumber, or use buildings to stay even.

T1 -> once the scout car is up feel free to go hunting - assault grens can't faust you.
T2 -> use maxim to suppress them.

The soviets have the necessary tools to deal with assault grens. If they are whining it's their problem. The only time I ever had a problem against them was the first day they came out unbalanced.

Exactly, ag are very limited, they can't fire faust or rifle grenade. Their grenade is very expensive. They can't fight garrisoned units and are ineffective in long range plus for some reason vet ag can't handle vet cons.

only people who play one faction think like that. Otherwise people want a balanced game not pissed players

Adorable how you cut off my smiley face at the end of that quote to take it out of context as a joke. Clearly you havent read anything else I've posted, pretty much ever, on these forums.

Or maybe you are purposely trying to troll me because it makes you feel big? You e-thug rascal you /cuts wrists

Yes, you should feel bad - but perhaps not for the P2W accusations.

They are infernally boring to play against and it is pretty much the same gameplan every d*** time you face an AG player. Their price and "buildtime" means that if the Soviet player is actually fighting you before his 4th unit is built, he is making a mistake. It is the old PE vs US problem all over again, though (thankfully) on a smaller timescale. If he manages to fight you and come out even, you are in reality being outplayed.

They are imbalanced in the earlygame (IMHO), but you pay for this when vehicles arrive, so it is supposed to be fine. I guess it is. It is just so damn boring. So if you care if you're both having fun, you should feel bad. If you just care about winning fair'n square, you're somewhat fine IMO.

I personally make a point of not bitching ingame, but after AG-spam, I'll confess I'm tested. If you can't be bothered whether I am having fun, why should I care about what you have to hear from me? I still don't bitch ingame though, but I feel somewhat the fool for not speaking up from time to time.

Cheers though

Clearly you havent read anything else I've posted, pretty much ever, on these forums.

Perhaps you should make a point of expressing yourself slightly better - I understood your comment the same way he did

AssG´s.
Everytime i see someone with that commander on 2v2: if the map allows it one of the SU just go T2 straight maxim. If not, agressive 2 cons to see if he DID go ASSgrens. Then quickly M3-flamer (either retreating 1st engi or building 2 and go for an agressive mine aproach), then mines for obvious 222/FHT. As soon as 1CP, some doctrine with guards n make the switch.

What it´s annoying: just having to completely change gamestyle or thinking process due to 1 possible commander the opponent MIGHT choose.

1v1: havent played alot against them (in comparison to 2v2) but fairly easier to deal with them.

It's against religion to use AssaultGrenadiers )

i use Agren few times but got owned most time, as it got tear apart pretty quickly when it run up to a conscript squad in cover and it lost in mid range shoot out fighting conscript. and if there is more than 1 conscript it can't win. so i don't felt it powerful at all like other people states. even when i use soviets against it, i don't felt much trouble.

so is there tips on how to use it correctly because right now every time i use it i lose.

Some good points made on both sides. One of the reasons other than getting bashed for being a pay to win noob is I was finding I would skip tier 1 and sometimes tier 2 and go straight for tanks and it was simply taking the fun out the game as I have found that using normal grens, MG's, Mortars, half tracks ect. allot more satisfying to win with.

On the other hand I started playing soviets again and because I had used ass grens so often I have found them so easy to counter, Maxims and clown cars are your best friend.

i use Agren few times but got owned most time, as it got tear apart pretty quickly when it run up to a conscript squad in cover and it lost in mid range shoot out fighting conscript. and if there is more than 1 conscript it can't win. so i don't felt it powerful at all like other people states. even when i use soviets against it, i don't felt much trouble.

so is there tips on how to use it correctly because right now every time i use it i lose.

Against a good player that's expecting them, they are really tricky to use because he can a) hide in buildings (especially around cutoff/oil/ammo) or b) fast tech to scout car/flamer eng and roast you alive.

Ag are only good against units in the open. In that instance you can close in and finish off your opponent quickly. Otherwise they need to be supported with 222 or ht. Sometimes you need to delay the first engagement until you have that support.

AssGrens may not be entirely balanced just yet, but any good soviet player should be able to deal with them well enough until they get a building up, at which point they are no more troublesome then standard grens. There is absolutely no reason you shouldn't use them.

Now when they just came out, those where some terribly OP pieces of shite and any player who used them knowingly should have burned in hell. I felt terrible in those two matches I played trying them out.

You should feel a bit dirty, yes. I think the main thing that gets people going up against the Mechanized assault commander is that the commander provides every unit a player could feasibly need to remain wholly competent throughout the entire game. Assault grenadiers, the option for pgrens (hence shreks), an armor unit the StuG, a straightforward offmap artillery that's great at clearing weapon crews, and then a tiger.

A soviet player knows that no matter how successful or innovative they are at utilizing their available forces against their opponent, they're at a tactical disadvantage. The german player can feasibly skip every tier until t4 for panthers, or pick and choose their strategies and counters if they need a specific unit from their arsenal.

A soviet player has to focus on forcing their opponent to spend fuel on pgren halftracks or stugs, or get them to backtech in which case the soviet has shot themselves in the foot because german t1-t3 has everything the germans need to shut down every non-doctrinal unit the soviet army has.

Essentially, when fighting the Mechanized Assault commander, soviets are fighting an opponent that is equally limited in effective options... So long as the german player decides to not tech whatsoever.

It just highlights the everloving hell out of the fact that soviets are sorely limited in their ability to field both an effective and a balanced army.

There is an inherent strength in having versatility. AGrens, and the commander that they're in is an added bit of versatility. Specifically in the drastic changing of early meta.

There is also power in familiarity, a power which you also have over others, and will continue to have as new players join the game and some older players leave, but anyone who plays for a while will either negate or diminish that power. This is even more true for people who play casually and don't go around digging through toxic forums for info.

But, while these two effects are are not that large, they still exist, which is why there have been complaints. This is why paid dlc commanders will always be a problem, even if their counters can be figured out. It's just odd that these commanders you have to specifically counter harder than any others.

The same go for the Soviet DLC commanders.

Something needs to be done to get people used to seeing these units on the field.