This post contain only the scatter values for autofire the rest can be found here.
https://coh2db.com/stats/
Scatter values for auto-fire
Imo:
1) USF mortar is inferior to ostheer one but not by allot and probably better than soviet, so it is inline with other mortars, basically all mortars are pretty close, (so either all mortars are garbage or none).
2) Ostheer mortars went from top of self to being slightly better than the rest so it was affected the most by the nerfs.
A comparison of mortar in the game
8 Sep 2019, 22:29 PM
#1
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
9 Sep 2019, 10:09 AM
#2
Posts: 2243
Hi Vipper,
in my opinion the sov mortar has its advantage cause of flares. Which bring much in any game you use it to look safely the enemy front and targets.
and by far the best (especially in price/ performance) is the mortar emplacement from brits. this thing is so cheap and have huge range and always drop double shell on your head...don't bleed manpower...
in my opinion the sov mortar has its advantage cause of flares. Which bring much in any game you use it to look safely the enemy front and targets.
and by far the best (especially in price/ performance) is the mortar emplacement from brits. this thing is so cheap and have huge range and always drop double shell on your head...don't bleed manpower...
9 Sep 2019, 11:48 AM
#3
Posts: 249
Hi Vipper,
and by far the best (especially in price/ performance) is the mortar emplacement from brits. this thing is so cheap and have huge range and always drop double shell on your head...don't bleed manpower...
Good thing then that it can't move away from enemy shells, receives bonus damage from incendiary weapons and costs alot of MP to justify those advantages.
Right?
9 Sep 2019, 12:41 PM
#4
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Since I had read plenty of post that claim that USF mortar specifically is was nerfed and garbage I wanted to end this myth, so that I do not have to read it again.
9 Sep 2019, 13:43 PM
#5
Posts: 2243
Good thing then that it can't move away from enemy shells, receives bonus damage from incendiary weapons and costs alot of MP to justify those advantages.
Right?
it cost a lot? you get 2 mortars for only 350mp.
Yes they are static...but if u not dumb you can choose ideal positions for them and the wipe a lot here and there...give smoke support and have huge range
9 Sep 2019, 13:55 PM
#6
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
AoE:
UKF mortar emplacement, OH mortar, SU 82mm, Mortar HTs.
Radius/Area: 4 / 50.26
Distance/Damage/Area:
Near: 1 / 68 / 3.14
Mid: 2 / 40 / 12.57
Far: 3 / 20 / 31.01
USF mortar
R: 4 / 50.26
Near: 0.75 / 68 / 1.77
Mid: 1.5 / 40 / 7.07
Far: 3 / 20 / 31.01
ISG:
R: 4 / 50.26
Near: 0.75 / 68 / 1.77
Mid: 1.5 / 32 / 7.07
Far: 2.25 / 16 / 15.90
120mm barrage:
R: 6 / 113.10
N: 1.1 / 68 / 3.80
M: 3.5 / 40 / 38.48
F: 4.5 / 20 / 63.62
120mm AA:
Near: 1.5 / 68 / 7.07
Mid: 3 / 40 / 31.01
Far: 4.5 / 20 / 63.62
Pack Howie:
R: 5 / 78.54
N: 1.5 / 68 / 7.07
M: 3 / 40 / 31.01
F: 4.5 / 20 / 63.62
Heat: same but with this dmg profiles 160/24/8.
UKF mortar emplacement, OH mortar, SU 82mm, Mortar HTs.
Radius/Area: 4 / 50.26
Distance/Damage/Area:
Near: 1 / 68 / 3.14
Mid: 2 / 40 / 12.57
Far: 3 / 20 / 31.01
USF mortar
R: 4 / 50.26
Near: 0.75 / 68 / 1.77
Mid: 1.5 / 40 / 7.07
Far: 3 / 20 / 31.01
ISG:
R: 4 / 50.26
Near: 0.75 / 68 / 1.77
Mid: 1.5 / 32 / 7.07
Far: 2.25 / 16 / 15.90
120mm barrage:
R: 6 / 113.10
N: 1.1 / 68 / 3.80
M: 3.5 / 40 / 38.48
F: 4.5 / 20 / 63.62
120mm AA:
Near: 1.5 / 68 / 7.07
Mid: 3 / 40 / 31.01
Far: 4.5 / 20 / 63.62
Pack Howie:
R: 5 / 78.54
N: 1.5 / 68 / 7.07
M: 3 / 40 / 31.01
F: 4.5 / 20 / 63.62
Heat: same but with this dmg profiles 160/24/8.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
9 Sep 2019, 13:58 PM
#7
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
it cost a lot? you get 2 mortars for only 350mp.
Yes they are static...but if u not dumb you can choose ideal positions for them and the wipe a lot here and there...give smoke support and have huge range
The autofire, for all purposes, have the same range as all other normal mortars. It's 85, but that's just there so you can't just "fire" at the boarder and still hit it without retaliation.
Barrage is indeed 115 for HE and 150 for smoke, but that's for something which can't reposition itself.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
9 Sep 2019, 14:08 PM
#8
Posts: 2243
and even without barrage it outrange every axis mortar with this 5 more range. and win easily vs them. and dont bleed your manpower and even can stand a full attack---where an ISG would have problem (no retreat, slow turning etc)
plus: what cost 2 mortars / 2 ISG?
plus: what cost 2 mortars / 2 ISG?
9 Sep 2019, 14:37 PM
#9
Posts: 249
and even without barrage it outrange every axis mortar with this 5 more range. and win easily vs them. and dont bleed your manpower and even can stand a full attack---where an ISG would have problem (no retreat, slow turning etc)
plus: what cost 2 mortars / 2 ISG?
You don't get 2 mortars or 2 ISG's to deal with emplacements unless you like shooting your own foot off.
- Ost mortar can barrage and then relocate(best done by Shift- clicking), rince and repeat. It's still much better to try to wipe out an Royal engineers squad in the long run with your bombing, since they are the only ones that can repair the emplacement.
ISG flatout outranges the mortar pit autofire(even though its a minor range difference), and if the brit player does barrage back you just move. Because you can move. Because you're not an emplacement.
Ground attacking with the ISG is also an option, but a much better tactic is to smoke HMG's/Bofors in order to chuck in 2-3 incendiary grenades.
9 Sep 2019, 14:39 PM
#10
Posts: 249
The main issue with Emplacements is that alot more effort(not resources) is required to take down an emplacement, than it is to set one up.
Obviously in return, the emplacement is never seen in higher ranked matches because it is so easy to counter once you know how to counter them. It's essentially a noobtrap in 1v1's, but very boring to fight against in 2v2's and up.
Obviously in return, the emplacement is never seen in higher ranked matches because it is so easy to counter once you know how to counter them. It's essentially a noobtrap in 1v1's, but very boring to fight against in 2v2's and up.
9 Sep 2019, 14:46 PM
#11
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Soviet mortar is def better than US one. Flares > any other mortar abilities IMO (not including pak howy/mortar HTs)
9 Sep 2019, 15:16 PM
#12
Posts: 1954
and even without barrage it outrange every axis mortar with this 5 more range. and win easily vs them. and dont bleed your manpower and even can stand a full attack---where an ISG would have problem (no retreat, slow turning etc)
plus: what cost 2 mortars / 2 ISG?
You play mainly OKW and are still whining about mortar pits? Two non-doctrinal ISG's take down a mortar pit quickly. Mortar pits haven't been effective for several patches. Even with that, sim city is still getting nerfs for some reason.
9 Sep 2019, 15:43 PM
#13
Posts: 1954
AoE:
UKF mortar emplacement, OH mortar, SU 82mm, Mortar HTs.
120mm barrage:
R: 6 / 113.10
N: 1.1 / 68 / 3.80
M: 3.5 / 40 / 38.48
F: 4.5 / 20 / 63.62
Heat: same but with this dmg profiles 160/24/8.
You didn't post the scatter values or ROF. I've tried a 120 a couple of times in the current patch and it rarely hits anything, and doesn't seem to really do much. The AOE is larger but it seems so inaccurate that it doesn't matter. The pop cap and cost are also completely out of line with its performance.
9 Sep 2019, 16:43 PM
#14
Posts: 359
You set out to jam observations into your hypothesis to give you the result you would like. The stats you gave show the OST mortar is superior but somehow you still just post scatter and then say "ACHKUCALLY the ost mortar is worse, sorry sweaty :^)"
Panzer tactician is no different than a skill shot. Hardly a "Free" get out of jail card.
9 Sep 2019, 17:06 PM
#15
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
You didn't post the scatter values or ROF. I've tried a 120 a couple of times in the current patch and it rarely hits anything, and doesn't seem to really do much. The AOE is larger but it seems so inaccurate that it doesn't matter. The pop cap and cost are also completely out of line with its performance.
Because i already wasted time putting the AoE values before i left.
I'm sure anyone else can put the scatter values for the rest of the units.
This is what i have from another post
-AA RoF:
Howie: 9.94s
120mm: 14.15
OH 81mm: 10.81s
ISG: 8.935
-Scatter (Angle/Distance Ratio/Distance offset)
Howie: 6/0.1/8
120mm: 10/0.1/10
81mm: 10/0.08/8
ISG: 6/0.1/5
120mm is not worth it, if you have T2 set up. You hit once in a blue moon, more so with it's slow RoF. If you need a mortar and don't have T2, you might save the 160 worth of building the tier.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
9 Sep 2019, 17:38 PM
#16
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Because i already wasted time putting the AoE values before i left.
I'm sure anyone else can put the scatter values for the rest of the units.
This is what i have from another post
120mm is not worth it, if you have T2 set up. You hit once in a blue moon, more so with it's slow RoF. If you need a mortar and don't have T2, you might save the 160 worth of building the tier.
I actually find the 120mm useful in attacking OKW trucks. It also vets when doing so.
9 Sep 2019, 19:11 PM
#17
Posts: 3113 | Subs: 2
If we really want to compare mortars/howitzer etc, we would need the following infos:
- scatter values (check)
- AoE profile (check)
- range, barrage and auto fire
- rate of fire
- cost
I think we're missing some info to fully compare them.
If somebody could give me the "raw data" for AoE (by that I mean the damage modifiers instead of the exact damage at the reference point), I can make a plot out of it to visualize.
- scatter values (check)
- AoE profile (check)
- range, barrage and auto fire
- rate of fire
- cost
I think we're missing some info to fully compare them.
If somebody could give me the "raw data" for AoE (by that I mean the damage modifiers instead of the exact damage at the reference point), I can make a plot out of it to visualize.
9 Sep 2019, 19:50 PM
#18
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I actually find the 120mm useful in attacking OKW trucks. It also vets when doing so.
I'm not sure something changed, but i don't find the extra 20 range worth it, when a normal mortar would be doing more DPS into a static position.
Talking about vet, IIRC it takes the same vet to get to vet 1 and half than for a normal mortar to get to vet3.
It has the same requirements as when it was more expensive and doing more damage.
If we really want to compare mortars/howitzer etc, we would need the following infos:
- scatter values (check)
- AoE profile (check)
- range, barrage and auto fire
- rate of fire
- cost
I think we're missing some info to fully compare them.
If somebody could give me the "raw data" for AoE (by that I mean the damage modifiers instead of the exact damage at the reference point), I can make a plot out of it to visualize.
You can easily extrapolate it by doing the reverse process.
"All" mortar shells do 80dmg.
Near range is 0.85 (as in patchnotes) for it to be 68dmg.
40 > 0.5
32 > 0.4
20 > 0.25
16 > 0.2
160 > 1.0
24 > 0.15
8 > 0.05
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
9 Sep 2019, 19:56 PM
#19
Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2
I'm not sure something changed, but i don't find the extra 20 range worth it, when a normal mortar would be doing more DPS into a static position.
It definitely can be. That's potentially the difference between having to set up a siege in open ground, or behind a bunch of garrisons, heavy cover, and a choke point.
9 Sep 2019, 20:19 PM
#20
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
I'm not sure something changed, but i don't find the extra 20 range worth it, when a normal mortar would be doing more DPS into a static position.
Talking about vet, IIRC it takes the same vet to get to vet 1 and half than for a normal mortar to get to vet3.
It has the same requirements as when it was more expensive and doing more damage.
...
Point is that the 120 mm is allot more difficult to counter with Leig. In addition according cruzz the 120mm has close to double AOE.
From in game experience I find it easier to use the 120mm vs OKW track and I have seen gain allot of XP that way.
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