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russian armor

Scott in LT or CP as the OKW Walking stuka.

3 Sep 2019, 11:39 AM
#21
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Sep 2019, 11:36 AMRiley


This is not a risk at all. This is a great advantage of the fraction, which allows you to call such a powerful artillery so early.

"is also not a universal or even valid argument" Of course, when you are a fan of OKW, this is not an argument. And if you care about balance, this is a fair claim. The USF should get a calliope outside the doctrine, or get a Scott as early as possible. Let the USF also put itself at risk. Risk giving a lot of reward.:rolleyes:

What Sander is saying and you clearly didn't understood is, if you go for early stuka and they won't pay off, you'll just get steamrolled by med armor and you'll have be up to 300 fuel behind with armored response.
3 Sep 2019, 11:46 AM
#23
avatar of Riley

Posts: 268


What Sander is saying and you clearly didn't understood is, if you go for early stuka and they won't pay off, you'll just get steamrolled by med armor and you'll have be up to 300 fuel behind with armored response.


I saw how early walking stuka pays off in a tournament. Why are you writing your opinion? The tournament showed everything, your opinion doesn’t matter now. Experienced players can use this advantage. And if this is such a bad idea, why not transfer the walking stuka to T3?

It seems to me that just people know that it's cool to have such a walking stuka. And talking about risk is just an excuse and is done to distract attention.
3 Sep 2019, 13:53 PM
#24
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Sep 2019, 11:46 AMRiley
I saw how early walking stuka pays off in a tournament. Why are you writing your opinion? The tournament showed everything, your opinion doesn’t matter now. Experienced players can use this advantage. And if this is such a bad idea, why not transfer the walking stuka to T3?

I'm sorry but do you have any idea what you're talking about at all? Early Stukas are a risk because they severely delay the arrival of armor because of their high fuel cost. The reason early Stukas were meta is because they could be followed up with the techless Command Panther at 225 fuel to counter Allied medium and heavy tanks that started arriving (in numbers) around the same time. Now with the Command Panther getting tied to tech, the earliest available vehicle would be a Jagdpanzer at 270 fuel, at which point the Allies can have up to 3 medium tanks already.


jump backJump back to quoted post3 Sep 2019, 11:36 AMRiley
This is not a risk at all. This is a great advantage of the fraction, which allows you to call such a powerful artillery so early.

"is also not a universal or even valid argument" Of course, when you are a fan of OKW, this is not an argument. And if you care about balance, this is a fair claim. The USF should get a calliope outside the doctrine, or get a Scott as early as possible. Let the USF also put itself at risk. Risk giving a lot of reward.:rolleyes:

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Sep 2019, 11:46 AMRiley
It seems to me that just people know that it's cool to have such a walking stuka. And talking about risk is just an excuse and is done to distract attention.

Again, I'm sorry to be blunt, but it seems to me that you have no idea how the game and its inner economic and gameplay mechanics or faction designs actually work. We don't put a unit in a certain place in faction A just because faction B has a similar unit in a certain place. There'd need to be way better arguments for that.
3 Sep 2019, 14:56 PM
#25
avatar of Riley

Posts: 268


I'm sorry but do you have any idea what you're talking about at all? Early Stukas are a risk because they severely delay the arrival of armor because of their high fuel cost. The reason early Stukas were meta is because they could be followed up with the techless Command Panther at 225 fuel to counter Allied medium and heavy tanks that started arriving (in numbers) around the same time. Now with the Command Panther getting tied to tech, the earliest available vehicle would be a Jagdpanzer at 270 fuel, at which point the Allies can have up to 3 medium tanks already.


Again, I'm sorry to be blunt, but it seems to me that you have no idea how the game and its inner economic and gameplay mechanics or faction designs actually work.


A very tricky maneuver. If now an early walking stukas is a bad idea, why are you so opposed to being moved this to t3 ? So this still has an advantage, right? I directly feel the concern of the OKW fan.

There is not a single reason that the OKW had powerful artillery so early.

We don't put a unit in a certain place in faction A just because faction B has a similar unit in a certain place. There'd need to be way better arguments for that.


You said the same thing when OKW and Ostheer used to have an early tigers, and the Allies also demanded pershing and IS2 was also early? Oh, you probably miss those times.

3 Sep 2019, 15:31 PM
#26
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Sep 2019, 14:56 PMRiley


A very tricky maneuver. If now an early walking stukas is a bad idea, why are you so opposed to being moved this to t3 ? So this still has an advantage, right? I directly feel the concern of the OKW fan.

There is not a single reason that the OKW had powerful artillery so early.



You said the same thing when OKW and Ostheer used to have an early tigers, and the Allies also demanded pershing and IS2 was also early? Oh, you probably miss those times.



You can't be judging the walking stuka after the patch without taking in account that the main OKW doctrine allowing to use it so early is getting "nerfed" by moving the CPanther into tier tech,
3 Sep 2019, 15:36 PM
#27
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Sep 2019, 14:56 PMRiley
You said the same thing when OKW and Ostheer used to have an early tigers, and the Allies also demanded pershing and IS2 was also early? Oh, you probably miss those times.


What are you talking about? Allied heavies were always intended to receive the same CP/tech overhaul as the Tigers one patch later. The Tigers were just the testing prototype. It was made very clear on multiple occasions.
3 Sep 2019, 15:37 PM
#28
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

Scotts unlike Stukas, actually perform decently well against light vehicles. It coming at t3 would mean it would counter pretty much everything.
3 Sep 2019, 15:50 PM
#29
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 919

Scotts are absolutely in a fine spot at T4, so are Katiusha and Panzerwerfer. It is the walking stuka that is in a wrong spot for 2vs2 and up. It should come way later, have more consistent damage over a wider area, less instant wiping (especially vs team weapons), more scatter on max range and more damage vs emplacements (at this aspect it really sucks hard).

It always bothered me that land mattress is coming way later in team games but is hardcountered by walking stuka, because of beeing a team weapon with a very long fire cycle. Just a very easy target that never will vet up, if there is a walking stuka around. Fire once then repair and recrew...
3 Sep 2019, 16:18 PM
#30
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

Want scotts in T3? Fine, nerf them to oblivion.

Jokes aside, they are absolute beasts, fast, deadly, versatile. They have auto attack, can barrage on the move. You all know this.

I feel OP wants to mimic OKM into USF and thats the wrong way to start balance discussions, anyway take this advice if you will, wstukas are still controversial, making a 'balance' thread copying the 'unbalanced' aspect of wstukas will result in 2 unbalanced units.
3 Sep 2019, 16:19 PM
#31
avatar of Riley

Posts: 268

Scotts unlike Stukas, actually perform decently well against light vehicles. It coming at t3 would mean it would counter pretty much everything.


How biased and not objective are the players okw. Really? Does Scott cause sudden damage to static vehicles like a stuka? Still with that range? Answer this question pls.

Tell this to VonIvan, who lost his stuart from firing a stukas when the stuart had almost 70% health. It was in the Masters Cup. What do you say to that? Could Scott do that? Do you want me to send you this video?
3 Sep 2019, 16:24 PM
#32
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Sep 2019, 16:19 PMRiley


How biased and not objective are the players okw. Really? Does Scott cause sudden damage to static vehicles like a stuka? Still with that range? Answer this question pls.

Tell this to VonIvan, who lost his stuart from firing a stukas when the stuart had almost 70% health. It was in the Masters Cup. What do you say to that? Could Scott do that? Do you want me to send you this video?

I will step in to anwer your question.

There are 2 different ways of attack in all games. Surprise (ambush) vs Assault. In the latter you just go b*lls deep into the enemy, they see you coming they react to you. In the former case the surprise makes each and every single hit as effective as they can, but be warned, you could have avoided the damage if you could have see it coming.

In other words, wstukas hit hard and precisely, yes, but they are far from being infalible.
On the other side scotts are more reliable, infantry and light vehicles even after seeing scotts hardly avoid a well microed ground attack, the smart choice for the axis player is to retreat instantly (at least wstukas have a cooldown between barrages)
3 Sep 2019, 16:24 PM
#33
avatar of Riley

Posts: 268

Want scotts in T3? Fine, nerf them to oblivion.

Jokes aside, they are absolute beasts, fast, deadly, versatile. They have auto attack, can barrage on the move. You all know this.

I feel OP wants to mimic OKM into USF and thats the wrong way to start balance discussions, anyway take this advice if you will, wstukas are still controversial, making a 'balance' thread copying the 'unbalanced' aspect of wstukas will result in 2 unbalanced units.



And what is your rank? I want to know which player is telling me this. Your words do not coincide with reality, in the tournament I hardly saw Scott, but in almost every fight I saw a stuka.

Oh, maybe you play with stronger players than players in the Masters Cup?
3 Sep 2019, 16:26 PM
#34
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Sep 2019, 16:24 PMRiley



And what is your rank? I want to know which player is telling me this. Your words do not coincide with reality, in the tournament I hardly saw Scott, but in almost every fight I saw a stuka.

Oh, maybe you play with stronger players than players in the Masters Cup?

Oh the irony...

Well, good luck in your selfish rant against a topic no one has trouble with...

Dont worry, only you saw what you saw in that tournament, other people perspective is just trash compared to yours...

Edit: sadly its a L2P issue you dont know how to avoid a single wstuka barrage
3 Sep 2019, 16:28 PM
#35
avatar of Riley

Posts: 268

Apparently, I gathered here the most active fans of okw who really do not like my comments. Because the early stuka is so good, and you all know that.
3 Sep 2019, 16:33 PM
#36
avatar of Riley

Posts: 268


Oh the irony...

Well, good luck in your selfish rant against a topic no one has trouble with...

Dont worry, only you saw what you saw in that tournament, other people perspective is just trash compared to yours...

Edit: sadly its a L2P issue you dont know how to avoid a single wstuka barrage


L2P? Oh, so you say that to a player like VonIvan? After all, it was he lost the stuart from stuka barrage.

You're definitely cooler than the guys from the Masters Cup. :clap:
3 Sep 2019, 16:38 PM
#37
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1

You got it! Everybody is a weeraaaboooo

Safe the freedom, we need personalitys like you, who stand up against facist devs and mods!
3 Sep 2019, 16:44 PM
#38
avatar of Riley

Posts: 268

You got it! Everybody is a weeraaaboooo

Safe the freedom, we need personalitys like you, who stand up against facist devs and mods!


What are you talking about? You all said the same when the axis received the early tigers. But now it is fixed. Do not change the focus to devs, I communicate with furious fans of okw who really do not like this post.
3 Sep 2019, 16:45 PM
#39
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

You got it! Everybody is a weeraaaboooo

Safe the freedom, we need personalitys like you, who stand up against facist devs and mods!

Let people be, dont feed the bias gap anymore.

If he really thinks wstupas are so OP let him prove his point by reason and not by force
3 Sep 2019, 16:45 PM
#40
avatar of blancat

Posts: 810

1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

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