Panzerfusiliers Need Adjustments

i compared them to cons , rifle and green i know u don't care but at least get thing right

just ignore this buffoon.

Anyone with half a brain can see pfussies are overpriced early game. i think the best solution is to keep the cost of 280 and improve ther early game performance slightly.

just ignore this buffoon.

Thanks dude I like you too!

Trying to play with Pfusi doctrines lately. My streak is currently -4.

Trying to play with Pfusi doctrines lately. My streak is currently -4.

In what game mode? I won 2 2v2s last night with breakthrough

Our own records aren't really evidence though, preview testing is the best way

Are you "make them cheaper early" people willing to make the upgrade more expensive in exchange?

Cause its spamming throughout the game im worried about, not whats gonna happen for the first 5 mins if we lower the price

In what game mode? I won 2 2v2s last night with breakthrough

2v2 and 3v3.

1st game -> tried only pfusi -> got facerolled by maxim spam
2nd game -> tried combining then with volks -> got rolled over by penals (but it was better than the first game)
3rd game -> tommies in any range with cover do not give a single fuck
4th game -> finally was doing fine thanks to my mate who held up and got real good with my pfusies (blobbing is the most effective way to use them for no reason) and holy rngesus blessed me with a crashing plane getting 2 of my pfusies vetted 4 and 5 and i just ragequitted.

As a sidenote haven't played them against USF but against any form of brit or sov opening, pfusi is a no no.

Are you "make them cheaper early" people willing to make the upgrade more expensive in exchange?

Yes. I can also agree on making them 1CP like JLI for 300 mp as the penals of OKW.

Edit : I also suggested make them 260mp add mp cost to upgrade earlier on.

2v2 and 3v3.

1st game -> tried only pfusi -> got facerolled by maxim spam
2nd game -> tried combining then with volks -> got rolled over by penals (but it was better than the first game)
3rd game -> tommies in any range with cover do not give a single fuck
4th game -> finally was doing fine thanks to my mate who held up and got real good with my pfusies (blobbing is the most effective way to use them for no reason) and holy rngesus blessed me with a crashing plane getting 2 of my pfusies vetted 4 and 5 and i just ragequitted.

As a sidenote haven't played them against USF but against any form of brit or sov opening, pfusi is a no no.

Fussies help if a clown car shows up so its def not a complete no no against sovs. I snared one in my first game last night

But they're definitely not strong in the beginning, it the potential you're paying for. 2x shrecks on a 5 man squad is ferocious

Yes. I can also agree on making them 1CP like JLI for 300 mp as the penals of OKW.

Edit : I also suggested make them 260mp add mp cost to upgrade earlier on.

Yup I basically agreed. Just said Relic has never done something like that, iirc

Also good with a 1 cp idea as well

then u didn't actually calc it, with their minus starting fuel and all upgrades unlocked okw has the most expensive full tech tree (even more expensive than ukf) and tank will come later than other factions unless they buy side techs (example ukf reach tanks rushing by 50 less fuel than okw with upgrades like bolster and weapon they even out, usf is similar )

The FU gain for each faction to rush their medium is (USF has ambulance upgrade included as they have no possibility to heal otherwise):
SOV/USF/UKF/OKW

255/275/235/310

Now the OKW tank is the best stock medium in the game, it's fair that it is better. we can adjust this by correcting for the fuel price difference, which leaves us with:

305/305/265/310

We can see that UKF can rush a medium super early, but usually they need to bolster in the early mid game since IS fall quite far behind performance wise if they don't get boosted in some way. This adds 35 and brings them up to 300.


So the performance corrected needed fuel gain between OKW and other Allied factions has a difference of 5 and 10 fuel, respectively, 45 (which is quite a lot and an equivalent of about 2 min) if UKF does not bolster. To get the full options that OKW has (weapon upgraded main line inf, nades) UKF needs to pay 325 which is fair as their bolster and weapon upgrade give them slightly better options (additional MP cost fully neglected here and down below, too).

If USF side techs, they exceed OKW, which can be almost equaled out if OKW side techs medics.


Now, there are other soft factors such as (Volk opening) OKWs early strength that allows them to get more resources relative to their opponent.
There's no reason to say that OKW pay more for their stuff.


EDIT: I mean then it's fair to add 15 FU to OKW for the medics as well, as the Allied factions have it at that point. Brings them up again to USF/UKF levels. Only SOV have the ability to get full tier and medium for less fuel gain than OKW by (medics included) 20 fuel.

The FU gain for each faction to rush their medium is (USF has ambulance upgrade included as they have no possibility to heal otherwise):
SOV/USF/UKF/OKW

255/275/235/310

Now the OKW tank is the best stock medium in the game, it's fair that it is better. we can adjust this by correcting for the fuel price difference, which leaves us with:

305/305/265/310

We can see that UKF can rush a medium super early, but usually they need to bolster in the early mid game since IS fall quite far behind performance wise if they don't get boosted in some way. This adds 35 and brings them up to 300.


So the performance corrected needed fuel gain between OKW and other Allied factions has a difference of 5 and 10 fuel, respectively, 45 (which is quite a lot and an equivalent of about 2 min) if UKF does not bolster. To get the full options that OKW has (weapon upgraded main line inf, nades) UKF needs to pay 325 which is fair as their bolster and weapon upgrade give them slightly better options (additional MP cost fully neglected here and down below, too).

If USF side techs, they exceed OKW, which can be almost equaled out if OKW side techs medics.


Now, there are other soft factors such as (Volk opening) OKWs early strength that allows them to get more resources relative to their opponent.
There's no reason to say that OKW pay more for their stuff.

just so u know okw p4 is a p4 with the vet 2 upgrade at vet 0 and a bit better scatter, that's it, it's actually quite expensive for what it offers , 20 more fuel for 30% more armor but no increase at vet 2 (compare with t 34 85 and t 34 76)

why did u count ambulance but no medic for okw ? are they making the meds drops like ukf one ?

why did u had the price increase ? it literally makes no sense, i mean did u make an arbitrary value to increase the value of the tank ? u know sherman is one of the most efficient and best tank in the game right ?

no IS work perfectly fine without bolster, they can get by with just the weapons and nades (that's the reason they are getting "nerfed" this patch)

scaling is the same as other main lines, u would have an argument if they had betters scaling, in fact vet 3 rifle with 2 bar will beat vet 5 pfusi with g43 at both long and close range

They have better scaling then volks.
Literally any other comparison is pointless.

i copared them to rifle penal and cons i don't know why u are so fixated with volks

I'll help you with this one if it won't blow your mind:

Show Spoiler

30 mp for their performcance , i tetsed them with cons , for how they did they would cost 250 mp not 280, as they have the same/worse performance as green vs cons but will survive better than green thanks to the 5th man so 250 mp performance and i high balled to not say 240 like gren

Get Sander to explain to you why its fine and why you're wrong.

They have better scaling then volks.
Literally any other comparison is pointless.



I'll help you with this one if it won't blow your mind:

because you get them instead of volks, not instead of rifles, penals or cons

if so why did u compare volks vs rifle when u aked to nerf volks ? i mean usf doesn't have volks, u can't copmare volks to rifle

oh wait i guess u can only do that i u only play usf

as always showing ur double standards kat

I am not really a fan of the new Pzfusiliers since its inital performance changed a lot.

I still just take Volks since they are still better and more cost-efficient in that way. Better combat and more supportive overall which Pzfusiliers seems to lack from the start.

Except for that snare in the beginning of course. All in all, not that much incentive really in going for them unless you want to acquire the Panzerschrecks which is utterly lacking from the Sturmpios AT kit.

Sturmpios AT kit should have been viable anyway from start which it always lacked from that change made since. Especially when they are a costy unit to acquire.

if so why did u compare volks vs rifle when u aked to nerf volks ? i mean usf doesn't have volks, u can't copmare volks to rifle

oh wait i guess u can only do that i u only play usf

Because they are both core units competing against one another. You compare core units with their outer faction counterparts to try and find balance, and doctrinal units to what they are supposed to replace if their job is to replace them and it gives y ou the best look at what the faction needs as a power level (although admittedly using volks for that metric is laughable, but if the units in the core are balanced making the doctrinal unit an alternative would in essence have that unit balanced as well)

You don't compare guards to Panzergrenadiers you compare them to penals.

You are trying to find the reason to fit it into your build,to pick a doctrine around it so comparing it to something out of faction doesn't make sense.

If the JP4 for example was doctrinal you wouldn't look at it and go "well tee su85 has more pen so this is garbage" you would say sweet a 60 range TD, how is it better than my current AT options and how is it more attractive than another doctrinal option.

They have better scaling then volks.
Literally any other comparison is pointless.



I'll help you with this one if it won't blow your mind:

Show Spoiler

Volks cost less than pfs and perform better than pfs. So you say they need either a cost reduction, a performance buff or both?

just so u know okw p4 is a p4 with the vet 2 upgrade at vet 0 and a bit better scatter, that's it, it's actually quite expensive for what it offers , 20 more fuel for 30% more armor but no increase at vet 2 (compare with t 34 85 and t 34 76)

why did u count ambulance but no medic for okw ? are they making the meds drops like ukf one ?

why did u had the price increase ? it literally makes no sense

no IS work perfectly fine without bolster, they can get by with just the weapons and nades (that's the reason they are getting "nerfed" this patch)

I added a point to the medics at the same time you wrote the post. It's now included in the original post.

OKW can come by with med crate drops if they really want to rush their P4 and still get healing. USF can't.
The price correction is perfectly fine. The OKW P4 is priced according to its performance and is one of the most popular mediums due to it's very high armor (Allied mediums pen with about 15% less chance compared to OST P4).
You can't say that OKW pays "extra" for their tank if they also get a better tank for that. If we assume that medium tanks are mostly balanced against each other, we need to correct for the price difference.

IS were overperforming, no doubt, but not as 4 man squads. They get a 10 RA nerf when out of cover, they get the same stats as previously. At the early mid game, OKW usually has StG Volks. 4 man Tommies have the same effective health pool as 5 man Volks (pre patch), but Volks have higher DPS up to range 26 and better DPS drop on model loss. So UKF must do something against OKW in the mid to early game in order to keep pace with the infantry engagements.

Volks cost less than pfs and perform better than pfs. So you say they need either a cost reduction, a performance buff or both?

From the second you get 90 muni onward, volks perform much worse and it stays that way.
And don't worry, volks are being addressed with cost increase already, so the gap is justified, its not like OKW doesn't have stock options to supplement PFs in early game, volks included.

From the second you get 90 muni onward, volks perform much worse and it stays that way.
And don't worry, volks are being addressed with cost increase already, so the gap is justified, its not like OKW doesn't have stock options to supplement PFs in early game, volks included.

Volks scale way faster than pfs though. Vet1 RA, cheaper weapons and faster vet gain. They just get faster online. And for that you get a unit that scales so good, that it still cant beat vet3 penals

Volks scale way faster than pfs though. Vet1 RA, cheaper weapons and faster vet gain. They just get faster online. And for that you get a unit that scales so good, that it still cant beat vet3 penals

Yeah, generalist mainlines tend to lose to AI specialists. They still trade equally at long range and have tools to punish other squads getting close.

Also, additional model > 10% RA and PFs stomp volks DPS once upgraded and vetted.

Why does this thread even exists?
Were you all people asleep when unit was being reworked? Because all I remember was praise for them being 0CP and having shreck upgrades.

Also, additional model > 10% RA and PFs stomp volks DPS once upgraded and vetted.

So cons > grens ? because that is excatly the case with 2 model difference.

Yeah, generalist mainlines tend to lose to AI specialists. They still trade equally at long range and have tools to punish other squads getting close.

AI specialist with AT satchel and double ptrs ???

Volks scale way faster than pfs though. Vet1 RA, cheaper weapons and faster vet gain. They just get faster online. And for that you get a unit that scales so good, that it still cant beat vet3 penals

You are comparing to a unit that is overperforming and trying to make another unit competitive against that...

Fussies will either be OP for cost or UP compared to volks. While volks performance is as it is (by that I mean a no Brainer unit that can do everything leaving no real room for any other unit to compete)

I say again, this is a volks problem more than it is a fussi problem and I'm not sure a 10mp increase is going to fix thr volume of problems that volks in their current state create with balance.