Panzerfusiliers Need Adjustments

It's curious to me that this discussion of their cost is entirely focusing on the g43 path of the fussies. Like they can also upgrade to a 2x shreck squad, and none of you "their too expensive" people seem to have any problem making them cheaper

I'm against anything that assists the return of shreck blobs. At least volks only had 1 per squad

But again, you're paying for potential. The fact you can choose to take the squad either way makes them worth more than volks IMO

Paying for ther potential according to who, you?

if this was true riflemen would cost over 280mp, they have far more potential being able to upgrade 1-2 bars, LMG, 1-2 bazzokas (with snare). if ther cheaper Axis not aloud to AT blob, only allies allowed ok i get it.

Paying for ther potential according to who, you?

Dude, i don't even know who you are. Calm down and stop making it personal

if this was true riflemen would cost over 280mp, they have far more potential being able to upgrade 1-2 bars, LMG, 1-2 bazzokas (with snare). if ther cheaper Axis not aloud to AT blob, only allies allowed ok i get it.

Rifleman pay 300mp and 30 fuel for that potential, plus the muni cost, on top of their 280mp. Not sure how you're managing to forget that. 2x Bars are also more expensive than g43s. Zooks < shrecks.

OST is my second most played faction. If you accuse me of allied bias because you don't like 1 of my points about 1 squad on 1 axis faction, then you need to seriously relax. Where are you when i spend 5 pages telling allied noobs the Ostwind isn't OP against t34s?

Dude, i don't even know who you are. Calm down and stop making it personal



Rifleman pay 300mp and 30 fuel for that potential, plus the muni cost, on top of their 280mp. Not sure how you're managing to forget that. 2x Bars are also more expensive than g43s. Zooks < shrecks.

OST is my second most played faction. If you accuse me of allied bias because you don't like 1 of my points about 1 squad on 1 axis faction, then you need to seriously relax. Where are you when i spend 5 pages telling allied noobs the Ostwind isn't OP against t34s?

check just above u can see okw pays similar thanks to the increase in tech cost , right now they pay 10 fuel more in total but the bar and zook can be put on anyone and u get smoke too

check just above u can see okw pays similar thanks to the increase in tech cost , right now they pay 10 fuel more in total but the bar and zook can be put on anyone and u get smoke too

Okay but why are you comparing tech costs to get to tanks in a thread about cp0 infantry? Im talking about what Rifleman pay, not US as a whole

Dude, i don't even know who you are. Calm down and stop making it personal



Rifleman pay 300mp and 30 fuel for that potential, plus the muni cost, on top of their 280mp. Not sure how you're managing to forget that. 2x Bars are also more expensive than g43s. Zooks < shrecks.

OST is my second most played faction. If you accuse me of allied bias because you don't like 1 of my points about 1 squad on 1 axis faction, then you need to seriously relax. Where are you when i spend 5 pages telling allied noobs the Ostwind isn't OP against t34s?

Again, going in circles like you did with stuglife, axis inf has ther upgrades bundled in ther tech which is why the tech's are higher, i avoided it so ppl dont circle jerk on the issue, both sides have to pay for upgrades. srsly by saying ostwind inst op vs t34's is your justification of not being a fanboy? your more deluded then i thought.

srsly by saying ostwind inst op vs t34's is your justification of not being a fanboy? your more deluded then i thought.

Lol what is your problem. If you can't talk like an adult i have no time for you. Grow up

Okay but why are you comparing tech costs to get to tanks in a thread about cp0 infantry? Im talking about what Rifleman pay, not US as a whole

then u pay 300 mp and have to wait 50 fuel to get nades and upgrades, as demonstrated the tech cost has the upgrades ingrained in it
and anyway then are doc units u seem to miss this (doc untis don't require upgrades tech)

08/19 Tech cost:

OKW:
340/5 (300)

Trucks: 100/15
Deployment: 200/25-45-120
Medic/Engineer: 100/15

1 Truck, 1 upgrade, Flak:
700mp 190/210f (-5f)
2 trucks:
1000mp/230f250
With both upgrades:
1100mp/245f265


USF
400/20 (200)

Upgrades: 150/15
Medic: 250/10 (2/3 popcap)
Officers: 200/35
Upgrade: 50/20
Major: 190/120

Weapon, nade, ambulance, 1 officer full, major:
990mp/215f (-20f)
Including both MG and AT gun:
1190mp/250f
Full roster:
1240mp/270f


SU:
390/20 (170)

Medics: 250
AT nade/Molotov: 80/10 - 125/10
T1: 160/10
T2: 160/20
T3: 240/85
T4: 240/90

Medics, T1, T3, T4:
890mp/185f (-20f)
T2 with conscripts upgrades:
1095/215f
Full tech:
1255/225f


OH:

420/20 (200)

T1: 80/10
BP1: 100/40
T2: 200/20
BP2: 200/90
T3: 140/15
BP3: 100/25
T4: 100/25
Medic: 150/0/60 (muni)

Medic, T3 (Ostwind rush):
590/145 (-20f) (+60mu)
With T1:
670/155
With T1+T2:
870/175
T1 + T2 + T4:
930/210
Full:
1070/235


UKF

340/20 (280)

Bolster: 150/35
Weapon: 150/15
Nades: 100/10
Platoon: 180/30
Side tech unit: 100/15
Company: 280/115
Anvil/Hammer: 200/50
Medics: 30mu x1 or 200mp/60mu

Bolster, nade, Platoon, side tech (or weapon), Company, healing:
810-860/205 (-20f) (+60muni)
Anvil or Hammer:
1010-1060/255
Full:
1160/270
Full + non meta healing:
1360/270 (+60muni)



PD: Notice how i didn't discount cost for starting fuel? It's only fair to discount if you also take into account manpower difference with starting unit into account.
If SU is the lowest faction denominator then:

Su: 560mp
USF: +40
OH/UKF: +60
OKW: +80

Edit:
Show Spoiler

Not sure how this thread made it into 14 pages when:

OKW
Starting Resources
We will be closely monitoring how the following change affect line infantry, including Panzerfusilliers, who will probably receive a cost reduction in the next version given their lower effectiveness in the early game.
- Manpower further reduced from 320 to 300.

and btw to kat and all the other nay sayer , Hanibbal trying to prove me wrong saying okw doesn't pay for upgrades actually proved me right

fuel need to reach tank tier rushing

su 165

usf 165 (with ambulance)

ukf 125

okw 185 (with medic)

now if we add optional upgrade of the live patch

su 185 (at nade and molo)

usf 195 but has better weapon and smoke

ukf 185 weapon nades AND bolster, which is not even needed and is just a plus

conclusion okw pays the upgrade like all others (and ukf is actually the one that get free stuff)

to further add okw had even a mpre expensive full tech tree as they need to pay 60 fuel for mech and 15 more fuel for repair squad

Don't misrepresent me. I always said that OKW does not pay extra for the same stuff that Allies get, and you disagreed.
Also when I first made this calculation, you said this calculation would be bullshit and pointless, only to make the same calculation a few posts ago. Just normalized to T34, then you claimed that we would "now" see something new (which we did not), and now you make the exact same calculation again just without tank costs and use it as an argument?

Anyhow, glad that you finally agreed.
One thing that is not relevant in a fast medium scenario, but ingame: UKF needs 15 fuel for side tech of AEC (or Bofors), otherwise they don't have any light vehicle, something that OKW has.

Also, full tech needed FU gain(no vehicle) for all factions are:
OST/SOV/USF/OKW/UKF
205/210/260/260/250

So OKW does not lag behind.

Full tech needed MP gains are similar with around 1160 +-20 MP (except OST which I calculated 1000 MP for, did I miss something? 150 MP for Heal bunker already added). Also here, OKW does not pay more.


For medium rushes, I'll mention a third time that OKW has the highest early game pressure and therefore also a bit higher income than other factions. From then on, other factors are hard to price, like UKF getting field healing/arty with upgrades(/+ additional mun cost), USF getting a "free" officer squad and FRP and OKW getting a "free" forward reinforcement point (or nothing in the terms of Mechanized) and a "free" combined area denial/AA building. OST and SOV get, well ... not very much.


So, but enough of that I think. Back to PF.
Technically, I could agree with a early game buff for probably late game nerf, but that would make them very similar to Volksgrenadiere. So one solution is to refine the mechanic they have now, or make them a very low or high cost alternative.

....

last time i checked usf is 120+55+55+30+10-20=250

and now that i check u got all number wrong, dude..... how is the seocnd truck only 230 fuel ? 190 is the cost for tier 1 and flack + medics , another truck cost 15 fu then 45 for the mech and then 15 for toher upgrade

OKW:
340/5 (300)

Trucks: 100/15
Deployment: 200/25-45-120
Medic/Engineer: 100/15

1 Truck, 1 upgrade, Flak:
700mp 190/210f (-5f) this is ok
2 trucks:
1000mp/230f im sorry what if it cost 190 to get flack and tier 1 how did u come up with this number ? does mech only cost 40 feul ?
With both upgrades:
1100mp/245f

Not sure how this thread made it into 14 pages when:

cause a cost reduction would just make them spammable and a volks clone, maybe increasing the dps is better

Don't misrepresent me. I always said that OKW does not pay extra for the same stuff that Allies get, and you disagreed.
Also when I first made this calculation, you said this calculation would be bullshit and pointless, only to make the same calculation a few posts ago. Just normalized to T34, then you claimed that we would "now" see something new (which we did not), and now you make the exact same calculation again just without tank costs and use it as an argument?

Anyhow, glad that you finally agreed.
One thing that is not relevant in a fast medium scenario, but ingame: UKF needs 15 fuel for side tech of AEC (or Bofors), otherwise they don't have any light vehicle, something that OKW has.

Also, full tech needed FU gain(no vehicle) for all factions are:
OST/SOV/USF/OKW/UKF
205/210/260/260/250

So OKW does not lag behind.

Full tech needed MP gains are similar with around 1160 +-20 MP (except OST which I calculated 1000 MP for, did I miss something? 150 MP for Heal bunker already added). Also here, OKW does not pay more.


For medium rushes, I'll mention a third time that OKW has the highest early game pressure and therefore also a bit higher income than other factions. From then on, other factors are hard to price, like UKF getting field healing/arty with upgrades(/+ additional mun cost), USF getting a "free" officer squad and FRP and OKW getting a "free" forward reinforcement point (or nothing in the terms of Mechanized) and a "free" combined area denial/AA building. OST and SOV get, well ... not very much.

im sorry dooes okw get puma when it gets tier 1 ? and does okw get snipers ?

/SOV/USF/OKW/UKF
/205/250/260/250

i don't knwo how u all get numbers wrong

Not sure how this thread made it into 14 pages when:

The mod team has reverted countless changes over the years, some of which were agreed upon by many people to be good changes. Even the language in the part you quoted shows uncertainty

We have previews for a reason, no?