September Balance Patch preview [SPBP] - general discussion
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Posts: 2243
- Arty Officer
- NKVD officer
- Airlanding Officer
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
Heavy crush to comet..not sure how 4 man ost can handle...
Heavy crush has nothing to do with crushing infantry models. It's about which objects (mostly big hedgerows) it can crush.
Posts: 732
Posts: 2243
where is instead a normal 60 range like other at guns and a green cover for models??
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
where is instead a normal 60 range like other at guns and a green cover for models??
At wehr.
Why do you want to make OKW identical to ost?
There already are barely any differences between them as is.
Posts: 2066
You guys basically take away the symptom whilst adding to the problem. That is literally allopathic medical world logic right there.
Posts: 3260
Hm I don't know about the split Schwere tech for OKW, especially having to rebuy the Panzer Authorization after you lose the schwere. As someone already pointed out, one of the main reasons people went with the Command p5 call in was because losing your schwere and rebuying it is way too big of an investment when having to buy a tank afterwards.
You guys basically take away the symptom whilst adding to the problem. That is literally allopathic medical world logic right there.
The net cost of the split SPHQ is the same.
Without the Jagdpanzer IV in the first half I think it's a little pointless, but it doesn't hurt in any way. You get LMG-less Obers a hair faster.
Posts: 2243
At wehr.
Why do you want to make OKW identical to ost?
There already are barely any differences between them as is.
all i want is to bring rakten in line with all other AT guns…
take away retreat and moving camo isnt worth to get a 5. model and 5 range.
it would be ok if the get grenn cover Bonus, 60 range and still have 4 models. or 5/6 model with no cover Bonus.
buut now they are fragil like now but have no retreat...so they will still die when detected
Posts: 2066
The net cost of the split SPHQ is the same.
Without the Jagdpanzer IV in the first half I think it's a little pointless, but it doesn't hurt in any way. You get LMG-less Obers a hair faster.
That is the point, it does cost the same as before. However, you now have NO choice when it comes to rebuiding it at full price, as the command p5 is gone (good nonetheless). This means the symptom, command p5 crutching and preference is gone and dealt with, but the real main cause of this, is still here: full on price to rebuild schwere and then having to build a tank again. That is way too expensive. This means no aggressive schwere placement ever again and it just sitting in base.
Posts: 2066
Posts: 3260
That is the point, it does cost the same as before. However, you now have NO choice when it comes to rebuiding it at full price, as the command p5 is gone (good nonetheless). This means the symptom, command p5 crutching and preference is gone and dealt with, but the real main cause of this, is still here: full on price to rebuild schwere and then having to build a tank again. That is way too expensive. This means no aggressive schwere placement ever again and it just sitting in base.
I think you're oversimplifying the Command Panther problem a bit, but I get the sentiment.
I personally think it should be a 60/60 fuel split, and the JPIV should be in the first half.
That gives Battlegroup builds decently fast access to a solid anti-tank vehicle, solves the long standing JPIV/Panther redundancy problem, and gives OKW players who lose their SPHQ a second comeback option instead of just the King Tiger.
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
As someone already pointed out, one of the main reasons people went with the Command p5 call in was because losing your schwere and rebuying it is way too big of an investment when having to buy a tank afterwards.
No one is forcing players to build their SPHQ on the front line though. If you like producing tanks, then put it somewhere safe or somewhere you're certain you can defend it. There's no need to continue to give OKW a free map denial tool without a big risk attached to it. And OKW still has the now improved King Tiger if they lose the SPHQ, anyway.
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
it would be ok if the get grenn cover Bonus, 60 range and still have 4 models. or 5/6 model with no cover Bonus.
Let me tell you a secret. The cake is a lie, the same with the shield. Unless mod team is able to put an invisible wall and change the model, giving the rak cover properties won't do anything at all. What helps other At guns is that they have a bigger model, but that only helps against tank shells.
Posts: 857 | Subs: 2
I think you're oversimplifying the Command Panther problem a bit, but I get the sentiment.
I personally think it should be a 60/60 fuel split, and the JPIV should be in the first half.
That gives Battlegroup builds decently fast access to a solid anti-tank vehicle, solves the long standing JPIV/Panther redundancy problem, and gives OKW players who lose their SPHQ a second comeback option instead of just the King Tiger.
+1
Posts: 3260
No one is forcing players to build their SPHQ on the front line though. If you like producing tanks, then put it somewhere safe or somewhere you're certain you can defend it. There's no need to continue to give OKW a free map denial tool without a big risk attached to it. And OKW still has the now improved King Tiger if they lose the SPHQ, anyway.
It does seem like something a trap unit now. It screams 'put me on your fuel or cutoff' at you despite that being a stupidly risky thing to do.
Game: "hey, this HQ has a huge fuck off gun on it, isn't that great?"
Player 1: "cool i'll put it somewhere it does something"
Player 2: blows it up
Game: "aha, FOOL! you fell for my cunning ploy! i hope you like stalling for a KING TIGER! ahahahahaha"
Player 1: " :'( "
This might be a bit radical for a balance patch, but have you considered this?
- Swap models of Schwerer Panzer Headquarters and Mechanized Regiment Headquarters.
- Gun stats on Mechanized Regiment Headquarters changed to match buildable OKW Flak Emplacement.
- Gun must be upgraded to enable it.
That way, the two trucks you'd actually want to put on the field are the ones you can afford to lose.
Posts: 783
can i ask what the point of this ?
Cost from 200MP/120 to 100/80; unlocks Obersoldaten and the doctrinal Hetzer; Obersoldaten upgrades locked behind Panzer Authorization.
nobody is gonna build it for penals for 80 fuel (mg is still locked in the last tier) as they are literally the only unit in that tier
I do not know if Obers can do much of an effect without the MG.
Is it actually good without the MG, what do you guys think?
Honestly, I do not think they could have much of an impact without the MG. It is like getting grens combined with their MG42 upgrade except worse than that. Obers with only k98 is worse than an upgraded grenadier according to stats.
https://coh2db.com/stats/#65
"select, Faction then Osteehr, Infantry then Grenadier, select under "grenadiers_mp" find the 1:_grenadier_mg42lmg_mp.
It will show the DPS which is in contrast far better than Obers without any upgrades.
https://coh2db.com/stats/#132 "Find OKWs Obersoldaten".
Why even get Obers unupgraded?
Obers definitely has better RA than Grens but all in all, is it worth purchasing without the MG.
Maybe I am wrong but I am curious as to what you guys have to say.
Overall, I am happy that they changing to make it possible to arrive earlier
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
I do not know if Obers can do much of an effect without the MG.
Is it actually good without the MG, what do you guys think?
Are tommies good without upgrades?
Obers are stronger.
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