70 ammo for just 1 Panzerschreck still, Why?

You're forgetting that the double schrek upgrade also takes away snares and disables the G43/6th man upgrade and thus pretty much kills the squads AI.

I'm not forgetting that at all...who cares if it reduces their AI?

I remember reading why they lowered the cost of double schreks for Panzergrens and it was probably the dumbest rationale I've ever heard. They literally said it was because the faction with the best and most AT options didn't have enough AT options. My eyes almost rolled back into my head when I read that.

I'm not forgetting that at all...who cares if it reduces their AI?

I can hardly believe that you just used "who cares" as an argument, yet somehow that's not even the most absurd thing you've said so I guess it isn' too surprising.

It doesn't just reduce their AI, it also takes away snares and cancels the other upgrade like I said already. In other words, it eliminates the squad's versatility and even hurts their AT capability in a different way.

Hey dont forget you also receive overpowered freezing immunity with the upgrade, thats why it costs 70 instead of 50 or 60

True.

Does it not mean that this package is outdated and has clearly been overlooked by the Devs?

They should really change it according to how the game is now and not how it used to be back then.

If anything, it is a pretty outdated package. Either its deliberate or they did not even notice it at all.

If by any chance they have realised it, why has nothing been done to it or at least the function and the description for it.

There is clearly no reason to have cold immunity anymore to add onto this ridicule price.

True.

Does it not mean that this package is outdated and has clearly been overlooked by the Devs?

They should really change it according to how the game is now and not how it used to be back then.

I believe people can still play with Blizzards in custom games.

I believe people can still play with Blizzards in custom games.

I do not play custom games. No one really does since online is what most people play.

1v1 or online matches, there are no blizzards.

There is more reason as to why it should be removed since mulitplayer is more popular and it should be adjusted accordingly in that manner.

It be adjusted according to its current rules and gameplays.

Blizzard no longer plays a role, therefore it should be removed for something else or just remove for a price decrease.

I want to use it willingly, with some purpose and viability which it currently has none, in multiplayer.

No one really does since online is what most people play.

You got any statistics on that?

Daily average player numbers of 6000-8000 (Steam playercount stats) indicate a monthly active playerbase of at least a hundred thousand, likely much more, and combined with the high popularity of mods and maps in the Steam Workshop (top mods have 420k-470k subscribers, top map has 200k subscribers) it's very likely that people still play custom games in significant numbers.

I do not play custom games. No one really does since online is what most people play.

1v1 or online matches, there are no blizzards.

There is more reason as to why it should be removed since mulitplayer is more popular and it should be adjusted accordingly in that manner.

It be adjusted according to its current rules and gameplays.

Blizzard no longer plays a role, therefore it should be removed for something else or just remove for a price decrease.

I want to use it willingly, with some purpose and viability which it currently has none, in multiplayer.

The cold immunity is not hindering the chance of the upgrade receiving a change at all nor it has any weight on the the unit balance.
There's no point in removing it.

People often mistakenly assume that because a similar unit or weapon has a certain cost attached to it, they should be mirrored in another completely different faction.
To top it off, people think that double upgrades are just 2x the cost of a single upgrade. It has always been that cost/opportunity of a more expensive upgrades tends to have a discount on them.
Finally, there's the unit which is intended to receive the upgrade and what they gain or lose by having them.

Ex: compare PG upgrade. It originally was 120 x 2 when probably the cost intended for a single one was much higher. Look at Storm/Volks originally PS cost. You can see how been a much expensive squad can affect the value of it.

I believe what should be tested is making the upgrade not exclusive with minesweeper. That change alone would make the upgrade see way more use. You never want to be without a sweeper at all and for most strats been at 2xSP is less viable than just buying the mechanized repair upgrade which cost no pop.

I'm not opposed to see further changes on Sturms, but i really think that a change that small will have bigger repercussions. Been able to have an easier time vetting allowing the unit to get access to stun nades as an example, will push the units further than just reducing the cost of the upgrade.

You got any statistics on that?

Daily average player numbers of 6000-8000 (Steam playercount stats) indicate a monthly active playerbase of at least a hundred thousand, likely much more, and combined with the high popularity of mods and maps in the Steam Workshop (top mods have 420k-470k subscribers, top map has 200k subscribers) it's very likely that people still play custom games in significant numbers.

I assume that multiplayer is the main mode which most people play is due to the fact that it is more fun and addictive.

Custom games AI is very repetitive and unchallenging, that is my opinion. If talk about most games that features multiplayer, multiplayer is most peoples n1 choice since it brings more excitement.

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The point is, I feel that the current "AT package" for Sturmpio should be more a suitable designated AT role rather than a costy inefficient package.

""I mean 70 is a lot for something especially which provides insignificant AT support as in comparison to Penals 60 AT package. The price and difference and efficiency between the two are hugely distinctive, leaving Sturmpio as the most cost-inefficient unit AT package available in game.""

Even then, OKW lacks real proper AT equipment. Mobile AT and Rak being off worse than most units available due to its seemingly unreliability.

It should be adjusted so that they are made competent and have a good deal of potency as in contrast to most other factions.

The package should be changed so that it can better fill the role and has a purpose as means of providing support than a costy inefficient emergency AT package.

Despite what utility Sturmpio has got, it sums up to be a total mess of undefined class, partaking many roles and not good in one specific role. "Jack of all trades, master of none".

I guess that is how the Devs thought of it as they did not know exactly how to actually define it at all.

Sturmpio in the game "Steel Division" defined it way more properly as to how it actually was, "not jake of all trades but defined". https://steeldivision.gamepedia.com/Sturmpionier

Does many roles in such an inefficient rate. Relic should redefine Sturmpios especially Rear Echelons (since both are undefined and not used willingly) role so it may be improved in some areas whilst removing and replacing some of its current accessibility.

Despite what utility Sturmpio has got, it sums up to be a total mess of undefined class, partaking many roles and not good in one specific role. "Jack of all trades, master of none".

I guess that is how the Devs thought of it as they did not know exactly how to actually define it at all.

You are just descriped cons))) Could build build sandbags, throw lolotovs and at-nade after researching. But you alwys have better unit in roster)

IRC Sturmpio have the most highest speed of repair (and got boost, if you purchase to them minesweeper). Royal engeeners need top-tier building and specific upgrade for it.

If you soo much want get them clear role:

"AT package" 100 muni (or how much cost pgrens shrecks now?) - 2 pshrecks + at satchel (like penals have) + ability to detect armor units in minimap (like soviets have in some doctrines). Lost ability to repair vehicle, drop medkits and build any structures.

Now you have 2 possible upgrades and 2 distinct roles:

1. Minesweeper - engeeners
2. AT package - at-hunters

You are just descriped cons))) Could build build sandbags, throw lolotovs and at-nade after researching. But you alwys have better unit in roster)

IRC Sturmpio have the most highest speed of repair (and got boost, if you purchase to them minesweeper). Royal engeeners need top-tier building and specific upgrade for it.

If you soo much want get them clear role:

"AT package" 100 muni (or how much cost pgrens shrecks now?) - 2 pshrecks + at satchel (like penals have) + ability to detect armor units in minimap (like soviets have in some doctrines). Lost ability to repair vehicle, drop medkits and build any structures.

Now you have 2 possible upgrades and 2 distinct roles:

1. Minesweeper - engeeners
2. AT package - at-hunters

Actually that is a great idea.

To make it a good, strong AT unit. It should sacrifice some of its current eqiupment for that.

Royal Engineers are pretty good. They are a better combat unit when they can get 5 man. They are much more cheaper.

Tough I somewhat disagree since Royal Engineers does not have to sacrifice ANYTHING for way better equipment. So much tech and so many varities to enhance its AT and repair capabilities. Even AI for that matter.

5 man Royal Engineers are already nearly as fast as Sturmpio repair. Royal Engineers on top of repair upgrade is simply way better. Not only they improve their repair but also combat. Thus Royal Engineers are better but even scale way better.

Conscripts, no wonder they suck because of the immense utility, same goes for units that have too much utility such as the Sturmpio.

Both feels, many utility, decrease overall performance.

Well, it seems not so much for Royal Engineers tough.

There should be a tech for units like that,decision between either performance or utility kind of unit. So that they can be made more usable. It should applied this concept to all factions.

Is a 5 munition difference really that big a deal? I mean, you'll only ever probably be inclined to make one unless you're some rank 2000+ sturm spammer, so that's like drops in the bucket.

That was my point actually, that any type of price reduction would mean the bazooka needs one too, which will result on more bazooka spam. 60 or 65 munitions shreck without tech would mean 40 to 45 munitions bazooka with tech if you ask me! 70 munitions is fine, shreck is far better.

Tough I somewhat disagree since Royal Engineers does not have to sacrifice ANYTHING for way better equipment. So much tech and so many varities to enhance its AT and repair capabilities. Even AI for that matter.

5 man Royal Engineers are already nearly as fast as Sturmpio repair. Royal Engineers on top of repair upgrade is simply way better. Not only they improve their repair but also combat. Thus Royal Engineers are better but even scale way better.

You need:
1. First brit building
2. Bolster squad upgrade
3. Build at least one squad of royal eng (1 sturmpio you have from start)
4. Build T4
5. Make Anvil
6. Purchase sappers upgrade (they will get lmg's with armor + repair speed boost, but debuf to movement speed)

Only after all these stages Royal engeeners will get speed of repair like sturmpio have.

You need:
1. First brit building
2. Bolster squad upgrade
3. Build at least one squad of royal eng (1 sturmpio you have from start)
4. Build T4
5. Make Anvil
6. Purchase sappers upgrade (they will get lmg's with armor + repair speed boost, but debuf to movement speed)

Only after all these stages Royal engeeners will get speed of repair like sturmpio have.

What I saying is, what Royal Engineers can acquire, is far better off than Sturmpios only repair upgrades.

Royal Engineers in the proccess improves combat capabilities against AI making it way better than Sturmpio since it can not even scale on like they do.

Thus Sturmpio AI capability is rendered useless in contrast.

Repair is just one part of it. The rest, All the Royal Engineer has. Better AI and AT support after 10 min until the end. Better Survivability if purchase Bolster. Improves also repair making nearly as equivalent. All in all, makes the Royal Engineer far better off.

Anvil makes their repair speed better than just 5 man at the end.

Royal Engineers will get the same repair speed or faster late game but everything else, AI , AT , survivability is what they will have early that Sturmpio will never even get.

The huge difference is, Royals Engineer can scale.

Sturmpio cant.

What I saying is, what Royal Engineers can acquire, is far better off than Sturmpios only repair upgrades.

Royal Engineers in the proccess improves combat capabilities against AI making it way better than Sturmpio since it can not even scale on like they do.

Thus Sturmpio AI capability is rendered useless in contrast.

Repair is just one part of it. The rest, All the Royal Engineer has. Better AI and AT support after 10 min until the end. Better Survivability if purchase Bolster. Improves also repair making nearly as equivalent. All in all, makes the Royal Engineer far better off.

Anvil makes their repair speed better than just 5 man at the end.

Royal Engineers will get the same repair speed or faster late game but everything else, AI , AT , survivability is what they will have early that Sturmpio will never even get.

The huge difference is, Royals Engineer can scale.

Sturmpio cant.

It's easy to make same changes for Sturmpio too.

1. Start unit is volk

2. Sturmpio could build only after first building will be deployed. They have mp-40, not stg-44. Becomes cheaper to 260, stats decreased accordingly. Get faust instead volks. Could get bolster upgrade +1 man. Could been upgraded to heavy sappers or at-hunters (only 1 upgrade).

3. After T3 (mechanazed truck with wstuka and p2) will be deployed, you can purchase for them upgrade that increase speed of repair and will get them 2 stg-44 with stun grenade - heavy sappers. You can't make repair station upgrade.

4. Can get AT-package - 2 shrecks, at-satchel instead faust, ability to detect armor in mini-map. Lost all engeener abilites - At-Hunters.

It's easy to make same changes for Sturmpio too.

1. Start unit is volk

2. Sturmpio could build only after first building will be deployed. They have mp-40, not stg-44. Becomes cheaper to 260, stats decreased accordingly. Get faust instead volks. Could get bolster upgrade +1 man. Could been upgraded to heavy sappers or at-hunters (only 1 upgrade).

3. After T3 (mechanazed truck with wstuka and p2) will be deployed, you can purchase for them upgrade that increase speed of repair and will get them 2 stg-44 with stun grenade - heavy sappers. You can't make repair station upgrade.

4. Can get AT-package - 2 shrecks, at-satchel instead faust, ability to detect armor in mini-map. Lost all engeener abilites - At-Hunters.

Great idea you should create a forum about this exactly. I like the idea since it fulfills Sturmpios designated role better.

Reduces Volks spam in this way since it would be removed from them. It is better this way.

Your idea is simply rational and ideal.

Great job!

That was my point actually, that any type of price reduction would mean the bazooka needs one too, which will result on more bazooka spam. 60 or 65 munitions shreck without tech would mean 40 to 45 munitions bazooka with tech if you ask me! 70 munitions is fine, shreck is far better.

This argument again...
Note that zooks can be equipped by any squads in any amounts. On the other hand only sturms can equip schrecks, and having more than 1-2 sturms is generally a bad idea.

This argument again...
Note that zooks can be equipped by any squads in any amounts. On the other hand only sturms can equip schrecks, and having more than 1-2 sturms is generally a bad idea.

Point stated. Good response!

Note that zooks can be equipped by any squads in any amounts

Only any amount that is between 1 and 2, with only Rangers being the exception at 3.

This argument again...
Note that zooks can be equipped by any squads in any amounts. On the other hand only sturms can equip schrecks, and having more than 1-2 sturms is generally a bad idea.

I know, that is why we can't lower their price. But not lowering their price means we can't really lower the price of the shrecks either, because they are better. I know they can be put on any squad, but that doesn't beat the point that they are worse than a shreck. I have used your argument myself in the past, but on the point of shrecks being 70 muni for one, I think it is fine.

I know, that is why we can't lower their price. But not lowering their price means we can't really lower the price of the shrecks either, because they are better. I know they can be put on any squad, but that doesn't beat the point that they are worse than a shreck. I have used your argument myself in the past, but on the point of shrecks being 70 muni for one, I think it is fine.

It definitely does not deserve to be anywhere near 70 ammo just for 1 Pzschreck.

If take SU AT package which is 60, it provides 2 PTRS being not equivalent to the 1 Pzschreck but being nearly twice as efficient.

Why? Because in 7-8 seconds PTRS does around 240-280 damage while Panzershreck does 120 damage. Only a second after would deal 240 damage for Panzerschreck but the PTRS would deal even around 300 damage.

I do not see the point at all in keeping it 70 ammo when its clearly not the best. Sure better than bazooka, but not that much better than the PTRS package.

Does not justify at all. It should simply be 60 ammo.