BIG 1v1 tournament coming later this year?!

I've had some thoughts about this.

1: I'd kinda like to see tournaments start with a group stage, round robin instead of pure knockout. The way I'd do it is this:

Best of 2. Each player plays Axis and Allies. Three commander ban against UKF, USF and OKW, Five commander ban against Ostheer and Soviet. If you win 2-0, you get 3 points in the group, 1-1 is 1 point. I'd suggest 4 man groups.

2: Ace game deciders should be a random map out of a large pool. Perhaps work with Tric to create this pool and have the worse excesses of some maps shaved down a little.

3: Commander bans should always be a thing. At minimum 1-2 bans, because it inherently encourages players to have a broader strategy pool than "OKW, Spec Ops, Mechanised, Puma, Luchs, Command Panther."

4: I know people hate ColdTech, but frankly I think having a side event or a smaller tournament on it to see if it develops another meta would be very interesting..

1. Agree that formats should try and spice things up a bit, with something we haven't had before.

2. Completely disagree, ace game decider should be as balanced as possible so the player with the best skills, endurance, and strategy reigns supereme. Not whoever can think fast enough on an unknown battlefield

3. I agree, however let's see how balance patches look.

4. Dying troops with low visibility is not fun for anyone. We suffered it in tournaments for two years, and for those of us that remember it was just... shit.

2. Completely disagree, ace game decider should be as balanced as possible so the player with the best skills, endurance, and strategy reigns supereme. Not whoever can think fast enough on an unknown battlefield

4. Dying troops with low visibility is not fun for anyone. We suffered it in tournaments for two years, and for those of us that remember it was just... shit.

2: Strategy should be adaptable. Skill is too. Endurance doesn't depend on a map.

Having a randomised map means that an additional skill players must hone is adaptability, and knowing the basics of a wide pool of maps. Encouraging players to know exactly what to do on Crossroads 100% of the time leads to situations where we could have Kimbo, VonIvan, Isildur and Noggano all play USF and overlay them with minor variation.

You yourself mocked the Spec-Ops meta. This would help alleviate that kind of situation and, in my view, provide a better viewing experience as people see players adapt and strategise on the fly.

4: That's why I'm thinking a side event. Especially if there were a map or two curated for it, to mitigate the worst parts. Fixed interval blizzards, good provision of cover and heat for the early game so that late-game vehicles destroying it becomes a tactical decision..

2: Strategy should be adaptable. Skill is too. Endurance doesn't depend on a map.

Having a randomised map means that an additional skill players must hone is adaptability, and knowing the basics of a wide pool of maps. Encouraging players to know exactly what to do on Crossroads 100% of the time leads to situations where we could have Kimbo, VonIvan, Isildur and Noggano all play USF and overlay them with minor variation.

You yourself mocked the Spec-Ops meta. This would help alleviate that kind of situation and, in my view, provide a better viewing experience as people see players adapt and strategise on the fly.

4: That's why I'm thinking a side event. Especially if there were a map or two curated for it, to mitigate the worst parts. Fixed interval blizzards, good provision of cover and heat for the early game so that late-game vehicles destroying it becomes a tactical decision..

Re: 2. In sports and competitive gaming competition is about proving skill, not adaptability to a random location.

You tell me a sport where you don't know what the playing field will be?

Or an esport where they don't always use the same maps over and over?

Any physical sport in which weather exists.

A football match isn't abandoned for moderate wind. The goalkeeper still has to account for it. A goalkeeper who only plays in overcast, calm settings would be looked at like a loon.

A golf pro has to know many courses, or be willing to learn. And each course has 18 holes.

Nobody is suggesting we just throw a brand new map at competitors, I'm suggesting a larger pool used for ace games.

As for esports:

SC2 has 9 maps.
BW has 10 maps.
WC3 has 10 maps.

To move away from RTS:

CoD: WW2 has 6 maps.
CoD: Bo4 has 6 maps.

We've got four, from what I've seen currently.

It's not unreasonable to have a pool of ten, of which four are primary and six are deployed as ace-game deciders. Or eight total with 4/4.

You vastly overestimate the number balanced maps we have, and also the fact that we have Allied vs. Axis every game which complicates things and necessitates utmost balance.

Just look at SC2 maps and notice how similar they all are and how symmetrical they all are, now if we had maps like THAT in CoH2 sure... let's go crazy but that isn't the case.

CoH maps take a huge amount of work to balance and justify due to the ALlied vs Axis dynamic, garrison mechanics, and the complex resources/capping system.

And because of this we have to be very, very, careful about messing with maps too much.

That said relative to our game I/we are open to more maps in teh 1v1 tourney map pool with:

Langreskaya probably returning

Nexus under a lot of work right now to make it tourney ready.

Vilashanka well thought of (if the bugs can be fixed)

So that's some which could be used already.

I hope they keep command panther call in.

Re: 2. In sports and competitive gaming competition is about proving skill, not adaptability to a random location.

You tell me a sport where you don't know what the playing field will be?

Or an esport where they don't always use the same maps over and over?

Well he is not suggesting completely new maps but rather an extended map pool from less played ones.

-Football/Baseball/etc have specified parameters on their fields but their dimensions can change drastically. Outside of training in your own stadium, you can't really practice on opponent ones or have a say on the state of grass (long, watered, etc.)
-Endurance type of sports: like marathons or open sea swimming, where weather plays a big factor.
-Recently i heard that on Kayak (the Olympic variation with flags) you receive the circuit field 1 day prior to competition.
-Surf/Climbing/Sailing

SC2 tend to have a bigger map pool which has change way more across the years. The design and type of maps been played has completely changed compared from WoL to LoV. As you say, they look way more symmetrical but the small difference on such a competitive and studied game allows for variety of strats.

WC3: while symmetrical each map plays completely different. From having different amount of mines, to size, location and type of mercs, random item drops, etc.
Maps are not balanced perfectly accordingly to all inter-matches and there's no "2 sides". Everyone play the race they main.

OW: i think they use the full map roaster.

PUBG/Fortnite/Any BR: yeah, a single map. But "not adaptability to a random location." doesn't apply. Random loot, random circle.

AoE2: i guess this is the epitome of "adapt" to the map you are given. While you have a type of seed for a certain type of map, players have to scout and adapt accordingly to what they are given.
Can they fish, can they find all sheeps, boar, gold/stone location? What about terrain elevations? How protected is the wood? Relics?

I hope they keep command panther call in.

They have already confirmed it being schwerer bound next update.

Sorry OKW bois, no more reckless schwerer placement only to lose it and win the game with CP5.

They have already confirmed it being schwerer bound next update.

Sorry OKW bois, no more reckless schwerer placement only to lose it and win the game with CP5.

Ah shame. I loved the unpredictable tourney play with this doctrine in the roster.

You vastly overestimate the number balanced maps we have, and also the fact that we have Allied vs. Axis every game which complicates things and necessitates utmost balance.

Just look at SC2 maps and notice how similar they all are and how symmetrical they all are, now if we had maps like THAT in CoH2 sure... let's go crazy but that isn't the case.

CoH maps take a huge amount of work to balance and justify due to the ALlied vs Axis dynamic, garrison mechanics, and the complex resources/capping system.

SC2 maps are already Protoss/Zerg/Terran favoured, just like our maps can be Axis/Allied favoured. That's not because of being non-symmetrical, but because of features.

Even in that link you've provided, some maps have really clear advantages to a faction, like Cyber Forest being 2% Protoss favoured versus Zerg, and 11% favoured versus Terran.

Remember, SC2 has to consider base placements, which involves considering natural first/second/third bases for each faction, consider the airspace near those base locations (too much room and Zergs go crazy with Mutalisks, too little and you can't scout), as well as things like gold minerals and engagement areas on the map, and they have to consider the strengths/weaknesses of three factions in that front across the AvA, AvB, AvC situations.

I'd actually love to see stats on how often our own automatch maps are won by each faction, to see how swingy we are in comparison to other RTS maps.

I'd actually love to see stats on how often our own automatch maps are won by each faction, to see how swingy we are in comparison to other RTS maps.

You mean like this?

You mean like this?

I love you.

You mean like this?

I also love you.

That said relative to our game I/we are open to more maps in teh 1v1 tourney map pool with:

Langreskaya probably returning

Nexus under a lot of work right now to make it tourney ready.

Vilashanka well thought of (if the bugs can be fixed)

So that's some which could be used already.

If nothing is being done to work on crossing in the woods (for 1v1) I suggest it be one of the first to be replaced.

From looking at those stats, what major harm would there be in expanding map pools to cover Arnhem, Vilshanka, Caen and Nexus?

They seem the least swingy maps, and if there's a particular issue or two it could be ironed out or players develop strategies to mitigate, no?

From looking at those stats, what major harm would there be in expanding map pools to cover Arnhem, Vilshanka, Caen and Nexus?

They seem the least swingy maps, and if there's a particular issue or two it could be ironed out or players develop strategies to mitigate, no?

Not sure if troll or not.

Arnhem --> incredible unbalanced map. And big house fights

Vilshanka --> sadly full bugged for units

Caen --> Got removed from automatch xD

Nexus --> had issues and WF is reworking it. Wehrmacht had always a hard time on this map. Don't know what it will bring in the rework.

They seem the least swingy maps, and if there's a particular issue or two it could be ironed out or players develop strategies to mitigate, no?

Win rates do not tell the whole story. If a map is very unbalanced the win rates will be perfect. You have a 50/50 chance of getting the good side.

Win rates are only part of the equation. Polling the top players in a tourney to see which maps they feel are the most balanced is another big part.

All aboard the hypiehype train

This is awesome! I love me some 1v1 tournament action. I'm definitely aboard the hype train.

The only way I know how to contribute is to make half-assed vids and mid tier memes, but I'm so goddamn hyped for this I need to make a hype trailer.

I made this one two years ago:



It's alright but I want to take my time and make something truly good this time.
BUT, it takes a long time to gather the video material needed.

If YOU know of an epic battle, a crazy moment or even like to record some cinematic shots yourself. Slide in my DM's and we'll make CoH2 vids great again! I'll promise you won't have to edit anything yourself, unless you want to of course. :j

More than anything though, I'm really really looking forward to this! Thank you AE, thank you Stormless and whoever else is making this happen, thank you!

//Casparitus

This is awesome! I love me some 1v1 tournament action. I'm definitely aboard the hype train.

The only way I know how to contribute is to make half-assed vids and mid tier memes, but I'm so goddamn hyped for this I need to make a hype trailer.

I made this one two years ago:



It's alright but I want to take my time and make something truly good this time.
BUT, it takes a long time to gather the video material needed.

If YOU know of an epic battle, a crazy moment or even like to record some cinematic shots yourself. Slide in my DM's and we'll make CoH2 vids great again! I'll promise you won't have to edit anything yourself, unless you want to of course. :j

More than anything though, I'm really really looking forward to this! Thank you AE, thank you Stormless and whoever else is making this happen, thank you!

//Casparitus