Possible commander revamp candidates

While we are not certain will we get third commander revamp, i think its good to think ahead by a bit about it. More specifically, what commanders yet need to be taken look at

Ostheer: i personally think ostheer is in quite good situation with commanders. Many of them are usable snd powerful but there are few ones with issues. Festung support is one such commander. Entire ability selection maybe excluding mortar ht is not really worth of utilizing. Mostly for reason that they dont function with each others well. Other offenders are cas doctrine and luftwaffe supply. Both arr quirky commanders thats powerlevels vary from being hard to utilize in 1v1 to abusable in 4v4s. Id say they need abilitied that are not just stuka strikes.

Soviets: in simular state as germans but with a lot more commanders with issued. Defensive tactics are incredibly lacking, 120 mortar being only unit with proper value. Mg nests, tanktraps or defensive tank like kv could help this commander. Lend lease and partisans and soviet reserve also could use with some changes. Lend leases m5 callin could be changed with guards with us weaponry or other western vehicle. Partisans are also in dire need of changes, yet such gimmicky commander might be hard to mske more worth.

Usf: all commanders are reasonably well currently. Rifle company could however use some changes, namely making it more about rifles.

Okw: thanks to pnzfussi buff and buffs for ostwinds and jägers, scavenge and breaktrough doctrine ard much better and crave less attention. Breaktrough could use some tweaking, namely sturm officer and assault artillery and jadg would be better replaced with something fitting to theme, yet unlikely.

Ukf: 2 commanders in particural are in need of changes. Special weapon regiment has lost a lot of its potency due to at sections ha e become less relevant and hold the line is still needlessly complex ability to use. As for advanced emplacements, i think most of community just want to burn it away as playing around emplacements hss not worked in anyones favour. This commander would likely require a complete rehaul and renaming.

Comment your thoughts.

Agreed.

Smartie also brought up Festung Support on my topic and suggested the addition of the Forward Supply Station and 12cm Granatwerfer 42 (renamed HM-38) to it which I think is a good idea, it would give the doctrine a new fresh and unique feel to it that no other commander has currently, plus the chance of Ostheer finally also getting a Forward Retreat Point similar to the Soviets, albeit doctrinal of course.

Soviet Defensive Tactics could get the MG nest and perhaps Widerstreit's trenches/anti-tank ditches, would fit Imo.

USF's Rifle Company has been discussed to death about a revamp, Riflemen Field Defenses, M1919A6s and so on have all been mentioned until now I imagine, several times even on multiple threads already so nothing new here.

OKW I think has a problem with the Special Operations doctrine being too juicy with the Command Panther and abusable flares so I think it will be up next for a revamp. As far as Breakthrough goes, Jagdtiger just belongs in it's own Panzerjäger doctrine if we're being honest here. Sturmtiger fits the theme of a "breakthrough" vehicle much more.

As far as the UKF goes, yeah pretty much. No idea what one could do with Advanced Emplacements, not really much options there as far as I'm aware, unless you convert it to more of a defensive commander instead of one focused solely on emplacements, like for example adding Standfast to it and Tank traps, no idea.

Special Weapons I have some ideas for, Hold the Line I have no idea on how to fix but you could replace it with crew repairs, or the M2 Flamethrower for the Sappers. Also a fun note here is that the UC was before the vehicle that dropped the weapons down, not the M3 Halftrack. Supply drop, M5 Stuart and M4A3 Sherman as additional lend-lease vehicles are also options.

For Special weapons regimen, i think the remain of it is still fine but AT sections can received some adjustments. I suggest give AT sections critical shoot or an upgrade with PTAT/Bazooka.

For Advance emplacement regimen, this i my idea:

Fist, change name to "Royal garrison artillery regimen".
0Cp: Field defense operation
- Infantry sections can lay wire and M8 mine.
- Royal engineers can built bunker and tank traps.

3Cp: Mortar flare, 3 inches mortar emplacement can now fire flare to ligh up FOW, similar to Sov mortar but for longer range, same as smoke range.

3CP: Garrison repair: Royal engineer can repair emplacements from insde.


8CP: 25 pounder gun emplacement, the model is already made in all unit mod.

10CP: Precision barrage.

A thread for suggestions on how to rework Rifle Company is linked below. A good place to discuss a potential Rifle Company rework or look at what has already been suggested.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/92039/usf-rifle-company-rework

Rifle Company is in dire need of a make-over.

Luftwaffe for OKW probably just needs 2 changes to make it good

1. Falls 5 men, possible upgrade to fg42
2. Replace the useless tank traps with an Ostwind (Why does the air force bring tank traps???)

Rifle company is indeed in the most dire need of help, Fire up and Flare are useless as commander abilities unless you bundle them with another ability into 1.

Elite riflemen - Moltov(same as urban assult), Sprint, flare

Luftwaffe for OKW probably just needs 2 changes to make it good

1. Falls 5 men, possible upgrade to fg42
2. Replace the useless tank traps with an Ostwind (Why does the air force bring tank traps???)

I think falls shouldnt be touched, especially the model count. And they dont have a tank trap ability, its field defenses that just happen to include tank traps along trenches and the thematically fitting 20mm flaks.

For Special weapons regimen, i think the remain of it is still fine but AT sections can received some adjustments. I suggest give AT sections critical shoot or an upgrade with PTAT/Bazooka.

My idea with at sections was that it could be upgrade for tommies instead of a expensive callin and maybe give something to sniper as he is on some level tank hunter as well, giving him snare or mines.

Thx for opening this thread Aarotron,here are my thoughts:

OKW:
The coming changes to Specops in combination with some minor changes to 2nd or 3rd tier commanders are a big chance for future OKW commander diversity.

• Breakthrough:
  Only changes to Sturmofficer and Sector Arty needed, JT could be traded with Sturmtiger, obviously JT should not use HEAT rounds then
  
• Luftwaffe:
  Falls need buff, Heavy Fortification replaced by Ostwind, rest of doctrine is fine
  
• Scavenge
  Could stay as it is but "Thorough Salvage" should be reworked, Ostwind could be replaced with a T-34/76 but this is not a must
  
  All in all the only OKW doctrine that need a real revamp and no minor changes is Firestorm.
  
  
  Wehrmacht:
  I fully agree with what you already posted:
  
• Festung Support
  
• and one of the Luftwaffe doctrine
  should be reworked
  
  I personally would prefer "Luftwaffe Supply" - it could give the mod team the chance to include Wehr Falls.
  
  Soviet:
  Easy picks for me:
  
• Defense tactics
  
• Reserve army tactics
  
  USF:
  
• Rifle company, what else?
  https://www.coh2.org/topic/92039/usf-rifle-company-rework
  
• Tactical support
  
  
  UKF:
  
• Advanced emplacement regiment
  
• Special weapon regiment
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

I think it's good to think about this and most commanders people suggest do need makeovers.
What I think need to happen in addition to this is look at the usefulness and consistency at some abilities across the board. Such as abilities that go against the games design or abilities that have been changed in recent updates and that a just flat out better and more interesting then their original counterparts.
Ill try to list them here.

Il2 Sturmovik strafing attack on Advanced Warfare:

Its expensive and useless for what it does, it also seems to miss a lot of the time. I say replace this with either the normal Il2 Sturmovik loiter strafe or with the Il2 rocket attack for some more variety between commanders.

Rapid Conscription on Conscript Support and Soviet Reserve Army:

Goes against game design of keeping units alive and me and my friends rarely use it. I also never see it used in pro games. I think can be replaced with various abilities depending on the commander. For example: For Mother Russia, Weapon Crate Drop, Commissar squad or maybe a custom ability where you trade muni for Manpower. The possibilities are endless since at lot of different abilities could be argued to fit the commanders.

Various Tanktrap and Defensive Emplacement commanders on different commanders and factions:

I think more uniformity on these abilities within factions would be nice. The biggest offenders that come to mind quickly are the trench abilities of Osttruppen commanders but it is not only exclusive to them.

Tactical Movement on Blitzkrieg and Lightning War:

Ever since camo got a sprint ability integrated I feel like Tactical Movement is a waste of a ability slot. I say replace it with camo to bring it up to standard or give it something more appropriate for the respective commander. For example a halftrack for Blitzkrieg and a Artillery Field Officer for Lighting War. These are just ideas though.

Relief Infantry on Festung Support and Lightning War:

Same as Rapid Conscription. A ability that goes against game design of keeping units alive and I never see used. Can be replaced with a variety of abilities like Osttruppen Squad, Ostruppen Reserves, Assault Grenadiers or Veteran Squad Leaders.

Various 250 Halftracks on Whermacht:

I feel like all the Halftracks that come pre loaded with soldiers should be replaced with the normal empty one from the German Infantry Doctrine. This would give small halftracks some more use since the manpower investment wouldn't be so huge (490 on Mechanized panzer Grenadier!). People can always load them up with a diverse selection of infantry afterwards so I think that this change will make the game more diverse and interesting.

Fire Up! On Rifle doctrine:

I has a slowdown at the end that makes it annoying to use. I say replace it with the Cover to Cover ability from Urban Assault. That one is better in every single way.

Raid Tactics on Recon Support Company:

A ability of dubious value in a faction where every vehicle crew can capture points. Maybe replace this with Recon Run from Tactical Support?

On a quick side note id like to list some changes that would makes some more thematic sense in my mind that would just consist of swapping abilities around.

Ranger Company gets Mechanized Groups instead of Rifleman field defenses:

More interesting light vehicle play and fits the aggressive theme better then foxholes.

Urban Assault kits on Rifle Company and M2 flame thrower on Urban Assault Company:

I think that getting molotovs and rifle grenades for there respective units fits better on Rifle Company because the focus on rifle infantry And what better weapon to clear out building then a flame thrower.

Sturmtiger on Breakthrough Doctrine and Jagdtiger on Elite armor:

A heavy breakthrough tank fits better on a breakthrough commander and the biggest baddest TD of the war fits better on Elite armor. I think the Heat rounds wont be an issue on the JT since I have never seen it bounce and if it perceived as a really big problem HEAT round can just be removed on the JT alone.

I think brumbär could also work exquisitly well in breaktrough, but crowd of "u make factions too simular" might not really like that

I think brumbär could also work exquisitly well in breaktrough, but crowd of "u make factions too simular" might not really like that

Or StuG III E, there are even announcer voice lines for a StuG and Forward HQ thingy for the neutral structures.

Some idea for commander ability……
Ost
Relief Infantry——replace by call in Ostruppen（0cp or 3cp for 2squad Ostruppen）
G43 upgrade——maybe can bundle with veteran squad leader

Soviet
Consript ppsh upgrade——replace ppsh by 1 or 2 DP
Consript repair kit——maybe can bundle with tank trap like OKW Heavy fortification make consript and engineer can build some tank trap dshk bunker or something defence
For lend lease——M2 .50 call in replace Dshk,Assault Guards no more bundle with HT and can upgrade 2x Airborne bazooka
Partisan and AT partisan——need more cheaper
And if possible,use B4 replace TankHunter and Terror ML20

USF
Big problem is Rifle Company,waste many commander ability slot
Rifle Company——
0cp——E8 not change
0cp——flamethrower for RE,replace by call in assault engineer
2cp——bundle fire up and flares be one ability
0cp——RM field Defence
6cp——WP barrage not change

OKW
SturmTiger replace Jagertiger for Breakthrough,and increase range to 100 make ST be a mobile artillery
CommandTiger replace ST for Elite Armor
JagerTiger replace CommandTiger for Grand Offensive
CommandPanther reduce to 8cp but need T4
IR.stg44——increase Ober sight to 50 and allowed Ober can ambush in cover
SturmOfficer—— better rework
Firesturm——
0cp——Fire weapon squad,T4 can training FlameHetzer,and T1 can traning a 5 man squad Ost Pioneer with flamethrower
0cp——Assault package replace by call in a squad Assault Grenadier
Incendiary Ammo——replace call in a mortar HT
Opel Truck——Be a ambulance lile USF

Scavnge
Ostwind——Replace by Soviet T34/76
Through salavge——no need more time,and give Volks repair ability
105 barrage——50 ammo unlock one round barrage

UKF
Flamethrower upgrade——replace by call in a squad Royal engineer with flamethrower,or bundle with Assault section upgrade
Advance cover combat——maybe can be a passive ability
InfiltrationCommandos——need more cheaper
Advance emplacement Regiment——
bundle improve fortification and advance assembly together,and give a Forward OP
Counter barrage increase range

And I think UKF commander is ——so powerful,but UKF faction is very boring,Bofos and Hammer is weaker than AEC and Anvil,UKF tech tree need big change

Or StuG III E, there are even announcer voice lines for a StuG and Forward HQ thingy for the neutral structures.

I would say these would be best used in a new OKW commander, OKW Urban Assault Docterine or something like that. Let the Sturm Tiger stay, it's a cool unit and it would be a waste to leave it out of the game.

OKW Urban Assault could be something like this maybe:

Stug E: available from HQ when either infantry or mechanized trucks have been build.

MP40 and flamer upgrade: same as in fire sturm obvious contender for CQC doctrine.

Sturm commander: the one from breakthrough (that one should be redone as well BTW, it promotes blobbing and mindless play). Helps units assault in CQC.

Early warning systems: Goliath to blow up bunkers and ambush in cqc.

PAK43: for that lategame AT punch from behind buildings.

Rifle company is a big joke right now. It has "Rifle" in its name yet everything the riflemen get is an overpriced flare and an overpriced poop sprint that makes them exhausted for 10 years, even if you retreat.


Both the E8 and phosphorus strike are good but it just doesnt make up for all the useless abilities if you compare the doctrine with other usf docs. And who wants flamers on REs now where you get access to riflenades or 5men flamer assault engineers.

Rifle company is a big joke right now. It has "Rifle" in its name yet everything the riflemen get is an overpriced flare and an overpriced poop sprint that makes them exhausted for 10 years, even if you retreat.

Wait, my memory is not that great, but doesn't the sprint debuff go away when you retreat?

Wait, my memory is not that great, but doesn't the sprint debuff go away when you retreat?

ah yeah, they get the speed penalty icon during retreat but it doesnt get applied during that.


Still a trash ability tho esp. for 15mun

ah yeah, they get the speed penalty icon during retreat but it doesnt get applied during that.


Still a trash ability tho esp. for 15mun

I think it should be 10 muni 5 sec sprint like for Ostheer, not 15 muni 10 sec sprint with debuff.