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russian armor

Jackson needs some more buffs

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9 Aug 2019, 03:21 AM
#161
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1


I'm open to tuning, but maintain that making it more expensive ain't the right route.


Which tuning change are you interested in? I liked the one you had with hvap earlier, about making default a little weaker and relying on hvap more

I guess i can see a lower moving acc than .75, but i feel it should still have more than regular mediums as well
9 Aug 2019, 03:40 AM
#162
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 960

Which tuning change are you interested in? I liked the one you had with hvap earlier, about making default a little weaker and relying on hvap more

I guess i can see a lower moving acc than .75, but i feel it should still have more than regular mediums as well


Why should it be higher than 0.5, like every other medium/heavy/ultra heavy tank in the game? Moving it to 0.5 solves basically every problem with it (mass M36 pushes in big games, insane chase power, etc.) without actually hurting its damage, range, cost, or really anything else. It's also really, really easy to avoid running into the "problem" of lower moving acc: just stop when you want to shoot.

The only other possible options are either increasing the cost/pop, so they're less prevalent (i.e. not having groups of 4 of them) or decreasing their damage (rof, dmg, pen, etc.), which is an even worse choice, since it means weakening one of USF's only anti-tank weapons in every situation.
9 Aug 2019, 04:57 AM
#163
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1


Why should it be higher than 0.5, like every other medium/heavy/ultra heavy tank in the game?


It's not even the only tank in it's tier with .75 so this isn't even true. Theres also the Churchill at .75, the ez8 has .75

Im suggesting it cost 155-160 fuel so i don't see why it having better moving acc than cheaper mediums that can also fight infantry is asking so much
9 Aug 2019, 05:23 AM
#164
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



Which tuning change are you interested in? I liked the one you had with hvap earlier, about making default a little weaker and relying on hvap more

I guess i can see a lower moving acc than .75, but i feel it should still have more than regular mediums as well

maybe im biased but i personally like the HVAP idea most as well. failing that a slight reduction to moving accuracy or possibly even general accuracy but im not a big fan of making hard counters unreliable so something would need to be done about medium armour as a focus imo.
9 Aug 2019, 05:56 AM
#165
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 888



Your first statement doesn't even require a refutation but what exactly are you on about with "bargain prices?"


Oh I forgot about "da best mainline infantry in the game herr derr Riflemen!" Yeah such a great starting unit that so easily gets its ass kicked up and down the map by...take your pick. Anyone who thinks Riflemen are good obviously never plays USF. Most people who do know they're garbage. "Oh but they're a good mid range unit!" Yeah that just means they aren't good at any range. Unless maybe you think Rear Echeleons are good? Like against Strums? LOL!
9 Aug 2019, 06:18 AM
#166
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 960

It's not even the only tank in it's tier with .75 so this isn't even true. Theres also the Churchill at .75, the ez8 has .75

So one of the slowest tanks in the game, and a unit that's rarely used outside of team-games (where it can be a problem in packs of 4+).

The Panther, Puma, Firefly, Su76, Su85, JP4, etc. are all at 0.5, despite having the same roll. What makes the M36 so special?

Im suggesting it cost 155-160 fuel so i don't see why it having better moving acc than cheaper mediums that can also fight infantry is asking so much


Because it's on top of it being the fastest (at vet 0) TD in the game, combined with it being one of the fastest reloading TDs in the game, having a turret, and having 60 range. All that combined is just far too much.

If lower the 0.75 moving acc to 0.5, the unit will still play almost exactly as it does now, it'll just be a bit worse when chasing units around - but no worse than (almost) any other tank in the game. We could even add in a vet 3 "+25% moving acc" bonus, that would at least partially compensate for the change, similar to what the OKW Panther received when it's moving acc was lowered from .625 to .5
9 Aug 2019, 06:33 AM
#167
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 888

Yes USF having the best TD in the game is too much. Guess what isn't too much though:

A stock King Tiger call in with any OKW doctrine

A stock heavy-medium tank, better than anything else the Allies have doctrinally and non-doctrinally available to both OKW and OST

A starting shock engineer unit roughly equivalent to Panzergrenadiers at T0.

A cheap 250 MP infantry unit that consistently outpreforms a more expenisve 280 MP USF Rifleman unit.

A crutch elite infantry unit called Obersoldaten...non-doctrinal of course.

A CP11 Tiger Ace that outpreforms all Allied heavies even though they are limited to 13 CPs

A CP9 Command Tiger that outpreforms all Allied heavies even though they are limited to 13 CPs

Double Schrek equipped shock infantry available at T1/2 now for only 100 MNs

The game's best MG, prehaps the best crewed weapon period also being one of the cheapest and available immediately at T0

All this and people whine over stuff like the Jackson and Tommies actually being good units.

9 Aug 2019, 07:08 AM
#168
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1




Im suggesting it cost 155-160 fuel so i don't see why it having better moving acc than cheaper mediums that can also fight infantry is asking so much


Your suggestion is stupid. If you're not killing the unit, you're killing the faction with such change. Jackson being what it is is a faction issue, be sure that if the Jackson could be nerf as such the balance team would have performed it 6 months ago.
9 Aug 2019, 09:40 AM
#169
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Aug 2019, 06:33 AMCODGUY
Yes USF having the best TD in the game is too much. Guess what isn't too much though:

A stock King Tiger call in with any OKW doctrine

A stock heavy-medium tank, better than anything else the Allies have doctrinally and non-doctrinally available to both OKW and OST

A starting shock engineer unit roughly equivalent to Panzergrenadiers at T0.

A cheap 250 MP infantry unit that consistently outpreforms a more expenisve 280 MP USF Rifleman unit.

A crutch elite infantry unit called Obersoldaten...non-doctrinal of course.

A CP11 Tiger Ace that outpreforms all Allied heavies even though they are limited to 13 CPs

A CP9 Command Tiger that outpreforms all Allied heavies even though they are limited to 13 CPs

Double Schrek equipped shock infantry available at T1/2 now for only 100 MNs

The game's best MG, prehaps the best crewed weapon period also being one of the cheapest and available immediately at T0

All this and people whine over stuff like the Jackson and Tommies actually being good units.

all u say is fake with no stats and proof Avery time u make a thread people post u stats to prove u wrong u just ignore them, u don’t read patch notes and u did u forget u invented the that the mod team nerfed the wc50 cause u wanted to spread miss information and show that they nerfed USF too much, when they didn’t touch the wc50 ?
Stop trolling or u are gonna get banned
9 Aug 2019, 09:58 AM
#170
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Aug 2019, 06:33 AMCODGUY
Yes USF having the best TD in the game is too much. Guess what isn't too much though:

A stock King Tiger call in with any OKW doctrine

A stock heavy-medium tank, better than anything else the Allies have doctrinally and non-doctrinally available to both OKW and OST

A starting shock engineer unit roughly equivalent to Panzergrenadiers at T0.

A cheap 250 MP infantry unit that consistently outpreforms a more expenisve 280 MP USF Rifleman unit.

A crutch elite infantry unit called Obersoldaten...non-doctrinal of course.

A CP11 Tiger Ace that outpreforms all Allied heavies even though they are limited to 13 CPs

A CP9 Command Tiger that outpreforms all Allied heavies even though they are limited to 13 CPs

Double Schrek equipped shock infantry available at T1/2 now for only 100 MNs

The game's best MG, prehaps the best crewed weapon period also being one of the cheapest and available immediately at T0

All this and people whine over stuff like the Jackson and Tommies actually being good units.

hey mod can someone say fake stuff and stats like this in the forum or will this be inv ? cause if not that m,eans everyone is allowed to spam whatever stats they want right ?
like RE BEAT OBERS NERF RE
9 Aug 2019, 10:01 AM
#171
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833

Nerfing tank destroyers is not the answer when we will soon have a patch bringing heavy tanks out earlier.

9 Aug 2019, 10:10 AM
#172
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

Nerfing tank destroyers is not the answer when we will soon have a patch bringing heavy tanks out earlier.

lol adding a tech requ. will bring them earlier ?
9 Aug 2019, 10:12 AM
#173
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

lol adding a tech requ. will bring them earlier ?

Yes, because you will no longer have to wait for CP.
Have you even played the game since "command tigers" became tech bound?
Why do you think they slapped CP req on them again?
9 Aug 2019, 10:14 AM
#174
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474


Yes, because you will no longer have to wait for CP.
Have you even played the game since "command tigers" became tech bound?
Why do you think they slapped CP req on them again?
cause people rushed them, now they can't rush with both cp and tech but they will come later cause u can't stall anymore with lower tech and have to build up
9 Aug 2019, 10:37 AM
#175
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833

cause people rushed them, now they can't rush with both cp and tech but they will come later cause u can't stall anymore with lower tech and have to build up


If there is a command point requirement it will still be lower than the current 13 or 14 for tiger or isu etc in unchanged doctrines. The TA uptick changes were a kneejerk nerf as the game was a mess with 14min tigers and allied heavies still being command point bound, but still it comes earlier than 15 command points.

So yes they will be coming earlier, this is basic understanding the concept of time. Especially in 2vs2 and up where caches and pocket fuels are commonplace.

9 Aug 2019, 10:42 AM
#176
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833


Yes, because you will no longer have to wait for CP.
Have you even played the game since "command tigers" became tech bound?
Why do you think they slapped CP req on them again?


I think he is trolling

I don't think anyone can play through the other months "tigerfest" and claim to be ignorant of tiger rush strats
9 Aug 2019, 10:53 AM
#177
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

aaah u meant 2vs 2+, then yes they could come faster but in 1 vs 1 they will come later thanks to tech cost, thought u still can't rush them in 2 vs 2 + and will be difficult to get cps without building tanks (they get more point both death and kills)
9 Aug 2019, 11:32 AM
#178
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Aug 2019, 05:56 AMCODGUY


Oh I forgot about "da best mainline infantry in the game herr derr Riflemen!" Yeah such a great starting unit that so easily gets its ass kicked up and down the map by...take your pick. Anyone who thinks Riflemen are good obviously never plays USF. Most people who do know they're garbage. "Oh but they're a good mid range unit!" Yeah that just means they aren't good at any range. Unless maybe you think Rear Echeleons are good? Like against Strums? LOL!

LOL! Haha
9 Aug 2019, 12:41 PM
#179
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

hey mod can someone say fake stuff and stats like this in the forum or will this be inv ? cause if not that m,eans everyone is allowed to spam whatever stats they want right ?
like RE BEAT OBERS NERF RE


Nope. :/ It may be wrong but people are allowed to have subjective takes on games state... even if it's really subjective.
9 Aug 2019, 12:43 PM
#180
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

even if it's posting fake stats and denying in game flies ?

like i could start making thread after thread with Pershing has 1000 k hp and 99999 pen

especially if those said people create alt account GOUH*15 post new accounts expert of the game and know anyone on the forum *gough to make them argument seems real and try to create a band wagon
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