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British balance - Tommy too strong
1 Aug 2019, 11:32 AM
#141
Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1
1 Aug 2019, 11:44 AM
#142
Posts: 833
You don't need an AEC if OKW skips their light vehicles to rush a tank. If they do get light vehicles, the AEC + its tech is cheaper (20 fuel more for OKW Mechanized vs 15 fuel for AEC unlock and the AEC is 60 fuel compared to 70 for the Puma).
Even if you go for every side tech (except AEC), that is 35 + 15 + 10 + 30 + 115 + 110 - 20 = 295 fuel for a Cromwell, which is less than OKW need for their medium tank (310). So once again, the UKF still has faster tank tech timing in any scenario.
Brits don't need Brens on Tommies to fight STG44 Volksgrenadiers either, they don't need grenades. See video below. They do fine just with Bolster. Besides Bolster, Brit side tech is all optional at the moment.
Right, but you're also paying extra popcap and MP compared to volks. And I could find a great deal of replays where OKW players don't even bother with StG upgrade and instead prioritize inc nades to win early engagements vs Tommy to snowball with luch and puma (later command panther).
Should we nerf incendiary nade to force them into having to use StG? It's the same logic you are using, and plenty of top players like luvnest have highlighted this issue with volks making the use of greencover redundant.
If you're gonna nerf core Tommy DPS you're gonna have to make it cheaper with the MP drain. There's already been power creep with conscript, pgren and gren buffs, volks still the best cost effective and versatile inf (sandbags, Faust, AI upgrade, building clearance) inf the game.
There's no doubt they're strong and over preforming in AI engagements, but you have to look at the broader balance picture rather than vacuum tests.
You mention yourself you want to reduce Tommy DPS to make units in green cover or buildings stronger, but just what other tools to ukf have apart from section spam? Wasp is fragile and mortar pit is useless
Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is
1 Aug 2019, 11:55 AM
#143
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
If you're gonna nerf core Tommy DPS you're gonna have to make it cheaper with the MP drain
Did you miss the line where it said accuracy would be increased so the DPS would stay the same?
1 Aug 2019, 12:00 PM
#144
Posts: 833
Did you miss the line where it said accuracy would be increased so the DPS would stay the same?
I am talking about your comment and want to make their performance vs heavy cover weaker
Brits are already weak vs heavy cover, if you're gonna hit them with a nerfbat you're gonna have to fix their weaknesses and missing tools. Eg a flamer, flame nade or mortar
Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is
1 Aug 2019, 12:03 PM
#145
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
You don't need an AEC if OKW skips their light vehicles to rush a tank. If they do get light vehicles, the AEC + its tech is cheaper (20 fuel more for OKW Mechanized vs 15 fuel for AEC unlock and the AEC is 60 fuel compared to 70 for the Puma).
Even if you go for every side tech (except AEC), that is 35 + 15 + 10 + 30 + 115 + 110 - 20 = 295 fuel for a Cromwell, which is less than OKW need for their medium tank (310). So once again, the UKF still has faster tank tech timing in any scenario.
Brits don't need Brens on Tommies to fight STG44 Volksgrenadiers either, they don't need grenades. See video below. They do fine just with Bolster. Besides Bolster, Brit side tech is all optional at the moment.
Did i make it clear, OKW pay 10-15 more fuel for a much better tank - P4 vs cromwell.
1 Aug 2019, 12:08 PM
#146
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
An mg42 in building can shut the UKF down for 3-4 fist minutes of a game while OKW can roam through everything in that timeframe just by stum and flame nade, but sure, why not ?
1 Aug 2019, 12:10 PM
#147
Posts: 833
There's also the point that making brens and five man a "must pick" ability limits strategic choice.
Right now if I want to ignore five man and go for a Vickers with four man Tommies to hold off until I go for a commando centric strat I could do that.
But if core Tommy performance is nerfed would these sort of strats still be viable vs a horde of volk spam? Especially stuff like healing changes with having to baby my mg teams back to rear lines with awkward healing restrictions. If tommy healing is that OP just remove it and mirror Brit static healing at the Forward assembly cost with the Otheer bunker. No need for such a complicated and clumsy healing ability that will put off new players.
I think you're making the meta even more dependant and limited on Tommy spam if anything.
No Brit player or allied fanboy ITT would care if Tommies got a heavy nerf and other parts of the faction buffed to Ostheer levels.
The problem is there's no attention to forgotten or neglected parts of the faction after these vacuum tests vs volks and kneejerk nerfs. Pretty sure that's why the old testmod changes got binned, that and relic being stubborn about keeping emplacements.
Right now if I want to ignore five man and go for a Vickers with four man Tommies to hold off until I go for a commando centric strat I could do that.
But if core Tommy performance is nerfed would these sort of strats still be viable vs a horde of volk spam? Especially stuff like healing changes with having to baby my mg teams back to rear lines with awkward healing restrictions. If tommy healing is that OP just remove it and mirror Brit static healing at the Forward assembly cost with the Otheer bunker. No need for such a complicated and clumsy healing ability that will put off new players.
I think you're making the meta even more dependant and limited on Tommy spam if anything.
No Brit player or allied fanboy ITT would care if Tommies got a heavy nerf and other parts of the faction buffed to Ostheer levels.
The problem is there's no attention to forgotten or neglected parts of the faction after these vacuum tests vs volks and kneejerk nerfs. Pretty sure that's why the old testmod changes got binned, that and relic being stubborn about keeping emplacements.
Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is
1 Aug 2019, 12:22 PM
#148
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
Another issue of bren tommy is that they have to be stationary in cover to maximize their damage output, which make them extremely sensitive vs indirect. To make thing worse, the only nondoc indirect UKF have is the problematic pit. Same problems happen with lmg42 gren and it is why ost players crying that much about pak howi.
Not many one know that Ost have th gwr 34 and OKW have leig, both are great investment vs Ukf but since Volk and Gren have to be able to do everything, especially Volk, and there is someone above believe bren can fire on the move, i guess this isn't a point.
Not many one know that Ost have th gwr 34 and OKW have leig, both are great investment vs Ukf but since Volk and Gren have to be able to do everything, especially Volk, and there is someone above believe bren can fire on the move, i guess this isn't a point.
1 Aug 2019, 12:28 PM
#149
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
if you're gonna hit them with a nerfbat
Damage from 16 to 14 and compensating with higher accuracy is a slight adjustment, not a "nerfbat". Besides the fact that I think you are overreacting, we're already ahead of you and also plan to buff the sniper's aimtime and increase the suppression on the Vickers a tiny bit to compensate the slightly decreased IS performance. Amongst other things.
1 Aug 2019, 12:42 PM
#150
Posts: 857 | Subs: 2
Amongst other things.
I hope OKW Falls are among "other things"
1 Aug 2019, 12:46 PM
#151
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
Damage from 16 to 14 and compensating with higher accuracy is a slight adjustment, not a "nerfbat". Besides the fact that I think you are overreacting, we're already ahead of you and also plan to buff the sniper's aimtime and increase the suppression on the Vickers a tiny bit to compensate the slightly decreased IS performance. Amongst other things.
You are ahead of many one, since most people jusst focus in neft tommy while ignore other parts of the faction.
For the sniper, i suggest give him scope Enfield and move critical shot to tank hunter section.
1 Aug 2019, 13:33 PM
#152
Posts: 366
You are ahead of many one, since most people jusst focus in neft tommy while ignore other parts of the faction.
For the sniper, i suggest give him scope Enfield and move critical shot to tank hunter section.
A scoped Enfield with decent pen and damage against vehicles (Well damage against lights atlease), na. The Britt sniper is fine no changes needed.
I agree with the proposed changes for the infantry sections. However, do still think bolster should take a weapon slot (I know RE can only have one Bren). I do und3rstand it vo y of be messy to work on through.
1 Aug 2019, 15:12 PM
#153
Posts: 98
Damage from 16 to 14 and compensating with higher accuracy is a slight adjustment, not a "nerfbat". Besides the fact that I think you are overreacting, we're already ahead of you and also plan to buff the sniper's aimtime and increase the suppression on the Vickers a tiny bit to compensate the slightly decreased IS performance. Amoungst other things.
I hope that by Vicker's suppression, you mean you guys are considering the AOE suppression. The Vicker's inability to stop angry mobs charging directly at it the way that the MG42 can, is a cause for concern.
Also for the for the love of all that is holy, please do something about the Comet so that we can start seeing more diverse strats from Brit players. At the very least you could buff the vet.
Please bear in mind that I only play team game modes.
1 Aug 2019, 15:53 PM
#154
Posts: 911
As i said, UKF pay for side tech, which delay their tech to armor, OKW is not. volk get stg on the field, tommy have to go back to HQ to get 5 man and bren, etc so for and so on.
How much side tech does UKF cost?
How much cheaper is a getting a cromwell vs a P4?
Its like you dont know what things cost in this game.
Imagine my playercard is here
1 Aug 2019, 16:05 PM
#155
Posts: 2066
We have removed the cover bonus from British infantry. Previously British infantry would be harder to kill, even if flanked due to the nature of the bonus.
Removed the -10% received accuracy for All British infantry when in cover
The 5th man is the cover bonus.
Kappa
1 Aug 2019, 16:37 PM
#156
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
I hope that by Vicker's suppression, you mean you guys are considering the AOE suppression. The Vicker's inability to stop angry mobs charging directly at it the way that the MG42 can, is a cause for concern.
Thanks for the suggestion, will keep that in mind.
Also for the for the love of all that is holy, please do something about the Comet so that we can start seeing more diverse strats from Brit players. At the very least you could buff the vet.
The Comet is on the list, at the moment it's planned to get slightly better AOE, reload added to veterancy and to get heavy crush.
1 Aug 2019, 17:03 PM
#157
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
How much side tech does UKF cost?
How much cheaper is a getting a cromwell vs a P4?
Its like you dont know what things cost in this game.
35 fuel for bolter, 15 for bren, 10 for nade, 15 for unlock bofor or AEC, 30 to built bofor, 60 to built AEC.
Cromwell is 110 fuel, OKW P4 is 140, OST P4 is 120.
if UKF go full tech, OKW just have to pay 15 more fuel for a P4, whichs is a much better tank. If UKF rush for cromwell, tommy will be left 4 man, unupgrade and get shreeded.
may be i dont know all the cost of the axis, but i'm sure know the cost àn tech structure of UKF.
1 Aug 2019, 19:08 PM
#158
Posts: 1351
Damage from 16 to 14 and compensating with higher accuracy is a slight adjustment, not a "nerfbat". Besides the fact that I think you are overreacting, we're already ahead of you and also plan to buff the sniper's aimtime and increase the suppression on the Vickers a tiny bit to compensate the slightly decreased IS performance. Amongst other things.
A quick question. Do you feel playing against ostheer is easier for the brits that vs OKW?
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2 Aug 2019, 02:30 AM
#159
Posts: 5279
I hope that by Vicker's suppression, you mean you guys are considering the AOE suppression. The Vicker's inability to stop angry mobs charging directly at it the way that the MG42 can, is a cause for concern.
Also for the for the love of all that is holy, please do something about the Comet so that we can start seeing more diverse strats from Brit players. At the very least you could buff the vet.
no allied mgs are capable of stopping angry blobs. thats by design for some reason. some cant even stop them once they get vet 1 and preload their "do the job i was built for" ability by design.
just like the okw command panther and tying it to tech, if volks cant hoard their way through everything itll ruin the faction
#stalinwept
2 Aug 2019, 06:35 AM
#160
Posts: 98
Thanks for the suggestion, will keep that in mind.
The Comet is on the list, at the moment it's planned to get slightly better AOE, reload added to veterancy and to get heavy crush.
Most excellent! I look forward to seeing what you guys come up with.
Please bear in mind that I only play team game modes.
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