About Sturmpioneer combat package

Relic remove blizzard long time ago....why we still need cost more 20 ammo for coats？And Sturmpioneer use too many population，most time we upgrade tools package to improve repair speed，so combat package is not a useful upgrade for SP.
So，how about remove coats form combat package，just 50 ammo for a Schreck.And combat package ，tools package not locks out other，but need second HQ deployed to unlock another package upgrade.

Honestly I would be fine with the two upgrades being lumped together for maybe 90 munitions or so. Would delay STG's if you go for it but maybe it would help out against LV's instead of feeling like you have to go Puma or 2x Raks to have a chance.

If Sturmpios could have a shrek and a sweeper, the 70 muni cost would be more valid.

IMO there is no reason why "basic" engineers like Royal Engineers and Rear Echelons can have weapon upgrades and a sweeper while "elite" sturmpios can not.

If Sturmpios could have a shrek and a sweeper, the 70 muni cost would be more valid.

IMO there is no reason why "basic" engineers like Royal Engineers and Rear Echelons can have weapon upgrades and a sweeper while "elite" sturmpios can not.

That's a pretty good point

If Sturmpios could have a shrek and a sweeper, the 70 muni cost would be more valid.

IMO there is no reason why "basic" engineers like Royal Engineers and Rear Echelons can have weapon upgrades and a sweeper while "elite" sturmpios can not.

Sturmpios can put their sweeper away and start with STG44s

They come pre-packaged with their weapon upgrades out the gate.

Both upgrades available would be fine for me.

The price of a single shreck is different from 2xshreck upgrade/2. Bundles are always cheaper than single upgrades.

Sturmpios can put their sweeper away and start with STG44s

They come pre-packaged with their weapon upgrades out the gate.

Spio sweeper upgrade also provides repair speed bonus iirc

Sturmpios can put their sweeper away and start with STG44s

They come pre-packaged with their weapon upgrades out the gate.

1st point is basically out weighted by the fact they cant have both upgrades.

Pre-packaged means its coherent with all the rest of the axis factions.
Or Would you like to add some weapon racks to OKW then? I would love to see STGs and skrecks available to all OKW infantry.

Please lets avoid self invalidating arguments for the sake of a clean discussion.


To OP, the extra value is not because of blizzards buff but because as a engineer unit its worth having handheld AT is superior to other comparable shreks upgrades

Isn’t part of the “theme” of OKW the disparity of late war German (specifically SS) units?

Volks are poor but numerous and cheap. Same goes for Rakettenwerfer. This represents the majority of late war German units that get some special equipment but not enough for all like the StG44s, but are mostly inexperienced troops with poor training.

The other end of the spectrum we have the most powerful starter unit, Sturmpioneers and the most powerful infantry, Obersoldaten and the most powerful tank, the king tiger. These elite units are really powerful and represent the overstretched and heavily relied on veterans who still remained alive from earlier campaigns. Few in number the have high manpower costs because they are so few, but also are just plain better than everyone else.

Sturmpioneers are designed to make you unable to do everything you want with them. They are supposed to be over worked by being the assault unit with high DPS and the minesweepers and the builder and the repair unit and now also a light AT platform. They fit the OKW theme perfectly making you really have to choose what you do with them because they are so critical to many roles but expensive to just build more of. You can either have a small but elite army that can do it all but be very inefficient in the long run, or you can have a larger more economical force that has some compromises due to your over worked veteran Sturmpioneers.

Because a weapon 50% better then zooka will cost 50% more?

Because a weapon 50% better then zooka will cost 50% more?

So PF and Pgrens need 150 ammo to upgrade 2x schreck？

So PF and Pgrens need 150 ammo to upgrade 2x schreck？

Bundle purchases were always discounted in coh2.
Back in the day, 2 T34/85 call in cost less then single call in.

Isn’t part of the “theme” of OKW the disparity of late war German (specifically SS) units?

Volks are poor but numerous and cheap. Same goes for Rakettenwerfer. This represents the majority of late war German units that get some special equipment but not enough for all like the StG44s, but are mostly inexperienced troops with poor training.

The other end of the spectrum we have the most powerful starter unit, Sturmpioneers and the most powerful infantry, Obersoldaten and the most powerful tank, the king tiger. These elite units are really powerful and represent the overstretched and heavily relied on veterans who still remained alive from earlier campaigns. Few in number the have high manpower costs because they are so few, but also are just plain better than everyone else.

Sturmpioneers are designed to make you unable to do everything you want with them. They are supposed to be over worked by being the assault unit with high DPS and the minesweepers and the builder and the repair unit and now also a light AT platform. They fit the OKW theme perfectly making you really have to choose what you do with them because they are so critical to many roles but expensive to just build more of. You can either have a small but elite army that can do it all but be very inefficient in the long run, or you can have a larger more economical force that has some compromises due to your over worked veteran Sturmpioneers.

Doesn't about history,I only think compared with the tools package，combat package is useless
Although SP is elite infantry,but they job at late game is repair,8 population for other faction is about 2 squads engineer,SP need upgrade tools package improve repair speed so most time player won't upgrade combat package,and combat package will cost more 20 ammo bundle with completely useless coats

Bundle purchases were always discounted in coh2.
Back in the day, 2 T34/85 call in cost less then single call in.

So tell me when Penal/PGrens/PF lost schreck or PTRS ，cost how many ammo to get new one，and how many ammo to upgrade their AT package？

Replanishing existing set is completely different from getting brand new one.
Keep trying.

I think this would be a fair positive change. Bundle minesweeper and shrek for 70-90 muni.

To counteract such a buff, I think it would be fair to make them unable to put the minesweeper away, making them able to hit vehicles and detect mines, but useless vs infantry.

But as given said. Sp are overworked and very expensive. To give them more utility is also a nerf. Because there is no way you can keep your sp functional and alive

I think this would be a fair positive change. Bundle minesweeper and shrek for 70-90 muni.

But what if I don't want to permanently handicap my 300MP unit with -25% anti-infantry DPS just to get minesweepers (for 70-90MU even)?

The minesweeper anti-tank combo on RETs and REs works because they can get them seperately, they get double AT, and they are cheap and low grade AI units anyway. None of that is true for Sturmpioneers however.


On the other hand, perhaps it would be nice to allow both upgrades simultaneously.

But as given said. Sp are overworked and very expensive. To give them more utility is also a nerf. Because there is no way you can keep your sp functional and alive

That’s exactly the point that I was making above.

OKW gets the best engineer/starting unit. The trade off for having the strongest starting squad that is also the best engineer with the most utility is that it forces you to choose what route to go with them. You can’t have it all, but with Sturmpioneers you can do anything, you just have to pick which part of “it all” that you want to have. Opportunity cost is a major factor in how they are balanced. If you reduce the punishment for upgrading a specific route by allowing you to get all of the upgrades then you no longer have that opportunity cost.

Now if you wanted to roll the support package together with the minesweeper then that’s probably ok, at a slight cost increase. The panzershreck upgrade however must remain as a separate upgrade that has truely negative side effects as it’s opportunity cost.

If an OKW player really wants a dedicated panzershreck squad they should just get PanzerFussiliers and get their double panzershreck upgrade. (But then you’re forced to pick a commander that has them and oh no another opportunity cost because now you’re locked into a doctrine! Opportunity costs are my favorite way the game is balanced. )

Relic remove blizzard long time ago....why we still need cost more 20 ammo for coats？

Something you have to remember with CoH 2 is that there's no grand design behind it any more. Relic has been patching the game with quick fixes and exceptions for about five years and the game is now a rattling, inconsistent, jury-rigged mess that somehow continues to function.

It's still fun to play based on its enduring playerbase, but if you're looking for some consistent underlying logic you're not going to find it.



The original cost of one Panzershreck was 60 munitions. Volksgrenadier Shrecks got cranked up to 90 because of the blobbing, PGren double Shrecks got cranked down to 100 because they weren't used much. Volksgrenadier Shrecks got moved wholesale to Sturmpioneers, then got cranked down to 70 because they were underused.